Fire Emblem

Azura not even attempting to tell anyone about Anankos in the other two routes is also quite idiotic. Not being able to directly say "Anankos" or "Vallah" is hardly a handicap if you can just say something like "I know who leads those invisible soldiers we have been fighting, follow me!"

The fundation in itself is, allegedly, solid. They asked a renowned manga writer to write the main plot. problem is, said solid fundation was then more or less butchered to fit the 3 branch storyline because you don't write a branching video game the same way you write a manga. It apparently did caused a bunch of worldbuilding to be lost, plotholes to be introduced, and it show communication issues within a dev team at its finest.

Not really the prime example or the biggest contention point, but a neat illustration of that is the hoshidian siblings : Because you "have" to be able to bang them, the game goes out of its way to make them not blood related to the avatar which majorly deflates the inital conflict of the avatar (adoption family or long-lost actual family) once you think about it. I'm betting anything you want this wasn't in the original plot draft.

The character of hinoka apprently also was shoved in at last minute for the sake of having a counterpart to camilla, and it shows because she's majorly underused in all 3 routes.

I think you don't get more to the core than that : they repurposed the plot of a would-be manga into a video game except they didn't handled it right.

Edited by Yumil on Jul 20th 2018 at 12:08:30 PM

There were also different writers for different routes and things the IS Team also added like Hinoka.

Which certainly explain why characters don't feel consistent personality-wise from a route to another. While there is some things I can excuse (the siblings of the opposed family I can see them turn out worse than usual because, y'know, their brother is coming to destroy their country, that's a pretty interesting thing to see them have some kind of breakdown), Xander typically feels way inconsistent between birthright, conquest and revelation. Everyone seems to like grabbing the conflict ball in revelations but xander in particular feels like he personally wants it.

Edited by Yumil on Jul 20th 2018 at 12:14:56 PM

I really don't see Hoshido as this Mary Suetopia as people make it out to be. Supports already shows it's not this squeaky clean nation. It just looks good in comparison to Nohr.

@dragonfire5000

I thought dungeon crawling was already confirm?

it may be worth mentionning the localization apparently went out of its way to tone down the suetopia aspect of hoshido (I'll still stress out apparently, I have doubts about the truth of that).

That aside, I think the thing most people think when qualifying hoshido of mary suetopia is how mikoto is so many levels of Too Good for This Sinful Earth. The fact she's that unambiguously good, and garon is so unambiguously evil doesn't mesh well with the personnal conflict of Corrin about his families, since this one is supposed to be much more gray.

Edited by Yumil on Jul 20th 2018 at 12:34:53 PM

Maybe I'm not recalling the supports correctly but their ruler just died why wouldn't people be devastated about that? I also don't recall no 1 but her children & retainers putting her up on a pedestal. It's been awhile so feel free to correct me on that.

Edited by agent-trunks on Jul 20th 2018 at 3:13:14 AM

Actually, all the rulers of Nohr and Hoshido were pretty good people. The only reason why Garon is such an asshole is because he's not actually Garon at all; he's a monster created by and controlled by a deranged dragon.

I totally understood why Xander and his siblings would be so reluctant to believe their father is "evil" and try to make justifications for him. By all accounts, the real Garon was a good (if strict) parent and a good king whose one major flaw was that he liked the ladies too much and couldn't bring himself to sever ties with any woman he fell in love with. People in real-life make all sorts of excuses and justifications when their loved ones change for the worse, so the behavior of the Nohrian siblings do not surprise me in the slightest.

I also didn't particularly mind the reveal that the Avatar wasn't really related to the Hoshidans, because to me it helped make the Hoshidans and Nohrians a bit more similar. The reveal that both the Avatar and Azura were Vallites meant that they were both outsiders to Hoshido and Nohr, yet the royal families of both nations did what they could to treat them like one of their own. I say "did what they could" because while Garon may have loved Azura like his own daughter, his concubines sure didn't do anything to make her feel welcome.

I wasn't aware that it was already confirmed.

Honestly, Mikoto didn't really strike me as all that different from several other "good rulers" that we see in the previous games. Maybe it's because she appears more often than them, but she just struck me as your typical "good sovereign" who just happens to have a bit more screen time.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jul 20th 2018 at 7:37:09 AM

The problem with Gooron is that it turns a political and societal problem with moral greys into a simple and frankly boring stop the evil dragon cause dragon is gonna evil. They had something going for them with a more interesting conflict, and I do think it kind of worked with Xander and Leo (kind of, not very well), but overall it meant the whole conflict boiled down to take down the bad guy in charge, put a sensible person on the throne, and everything will fall into place.

Which I didn't mind because, honestly, Anankos is why Nohr is having such problems. I doubt that the Nohr vs. Hoshido conflict would exist at all if not for the dragon.

We know that the real Garon loved Arete. Arete is Mikoto's sister, and the two of them had a really good relationship, which would've been a good foundation for building a good relationship between the two countries. The real Garon probably wouldn't have that hard a time getting aid from Hoshido to deal with Nohr's shortages, due to his queen being the beloved older sister of Hoshido's current queen.

The real Garon would also have no reason to kidnap the Avatar, which wouldn't have sparked that particular bit of bad blood with Hoshido.

Then again, I also didn't find Anankos's story to be boring. I've said before that I find Anankos to be the best villain in the series, and I stand by that for now (I'm waiting to see what Three Houses has to offer). As someone who's had to watch a family member slowly lose more and more of their cognitive functions as time goes on, Anankos's story is one I can relate to.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jul 20th 2018 at 8:02:47 AM

... Just to clarify, when I say garon's obviously evil, I was talking about the slime. In case it wasn't clear enough.

Real garon being a good guy is neat but it has little to no impact on the plot since he's completely gone save for the final scene in birthright. He could have not had this backstory as a good guy and it wouldn't have changed anything since you could invoke the exact same reasons for the nohrian siblings to stay by his side, word for word, and it would have been about as legitimate. Maybe a little less, but not that much.

Also, other good rulers in the Fire emblem series doesn't put magical barriers that makes enemy soldiers not hostile. That's a difference I wouldn't gloss over.

Said magical barrier, let's talk about it. Why is Mikoto the only person who can make it ? If she's not, why aren't the hoshidians siblings recreating it instead of going to war since it was her will to avoid the war ? The hoshidian court has talented onmyojis in their ranks so it's not like there's nobody competent enough to do it. Why is that plot point never mentionned ever again after her death ?

Because the writers were searching for a logical explanation for why the situation was a stalemate before the avatar arrives in hoshido but didn't think this through. The barrier is a plot device, and by extension mikoto too in any route that isn't late revelation. (Ok maybe that's a bit harsh, she's still fleshed out in the other two games via supports with other people).

As for xander, I didn't said anything about him refusing to accept garon's evil. That much is believable. I'm talking about his confrontationnal attitude toward corrin in Revelations where he just won't listen to anything he has to say, not even that there's another adversary. It strictly has nothing to do with garon being the slimeball since revelation already treats that plotpoint as an afterthought and never actually mentions it. Conquest Xander never show this kind of trait and unlike in birthright he has no reason to be this confrontationnal. Contrasts with Ryoma, who's just as confrontationnal in conquest than xander is in birthright, yet is shown to be very acceptant of what Corrin has to say even though his mother just died and conquest shows him to be the kind of person to go roaring rampage of revenge on the people responsible for it.

Just because you're ok with the various flaws of the writing and still liked the story, (which is perfectly ok, just so we're clear on that, I still did liked it to an extent myself) doesn't mean they aren't here.

Edited by Yumil on Jul 20th 2018 at 6:21:40 PM

@agent-Trunks: A different writer also did the supports so the consistency of the story with the supports is very loose as a result.

And I'm saying that I don't really see those things as flaws, because I felt those story bits were completely understandable based on what the game tells and shows me.

• Mikoto's barrier not only serves as an explanation as to why a full-scale invasion hasn't happened yet and as a way to introduce Sumeragi and the rest of the Vallites, but it fits her character as well. Mikoto's been characterized as a lover of peace, so it makes sense that she would create a barrier not only to protect her citizens, but to turn the soldiers away without physically harming them. This also makes sense to me because her older sister was the Queen of Nohr for some time; I can see her not wanting to unnecessarily hurt any Nohrians because they are her sister's people.
• Xander's always been confrontational to anyone who he thinks will bring harm to his country, so his behavior in Revelation didn't strike me as particularly odd. Conquest Xander doesn't show this trait because the main target for this sort of behavior, the Avatar, is on the side of Nohr in that route.
• As for Ryoma, keep in mind that Takumi and Sakura are with the Avatar at the point where he's encountered again in Revelation. While he does not have any special dialogue for if they engage him in battle, storywise he probably thinks that if someone like Takumi is willing to follow the Avatar, he too should probably give the Avatar a chance. Add to the fact that Scarlet is around just a bit longer to be the voice of reason (and embarrasment), and I can see why Ryoma isn't quite as stab-happy in Revelation.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jul 20th 2018 at 9:34:51 AM

Save for the barrier that they flat out ignore, the Crown of Nibelung gives a much more sane reasoning that's he building his power to help his country and his antagonistic attitude towards even Leo is to keep them out of the coming fight that would result once he's gotten enough.

It also does a better job of showing how Gooron is just wholesale slaughtering villagers and servants as he becomes more and more deranged in service to his master Anankos.

Only Mikoto being able to maintain the barrier can be handwaved as super special Vallite magic.

Everyone focuses on how Xander is a moron regarding Garon. Meanwhile Leo successfully subverts him right under his nose and just needs a single good excuse to stop supporting him in Birthright and Revelation. The Dark Prince deserves the throne more than his brother any day.

I'm not the one who asked why Fates plot failed. people ask, I just answered to the question by citing the main and most valids criticism. Of course you don't see them as flaws, because the plot didn't failed for you. But from that perspective, there's nothing to say.

As for the different reasons you listed, it still doesn't explain why nobody put back the barrier after mioto's death.

And camilla's and elise are on our side when battling xander too. And that does not stop him at all even though they'd be percfectly reasonable reasons for him to consider what Corrin has to say.

Edited by Yumil on Jul 20th 2018 at 6:50:39 PM

I assumed no one put the barrier back because Mikoto was the one person maintaining it. Considering that she's a Vallite, I would assume the barrier was a form of Vallite magic.

I mentioned before that Xander has always been confrontational to any perceived treachery to his country. He even flat-out asks Camilla if she's turned traitor if the two units fight in Chapter 13. Also, at that point in the story, Elise isn't part of the group yet. She joins up in the next chapter.

As for Ryoma, I think that he would probably be given more pause over Takumi being in the group because Takumi was very vocally distrusting of the Avatar in the previous chapter, and Ryoma knows it. So when Ryoma sees Takumi following the Avatar around, I'm guessing his thought process went something like "Wait, what's Takumi doing there? He was the loudest about not trusting Corrin, especially after Mother's death...what's going on?"

Finally, as for why Ryoma and Xander react differently...well, they're different characters with different personalities.

oh, right, my bad on that one, misremembered the order of events for revelations.

Camilla would still be notable because everyone around Corrin hasn't been murdered with Corrin physically subdued and dragged back to Nohr (see: what she attempts to do in Birthright), which should give Xander pause.

Saizo and Kagero can smackdown Ryoma. Logic wasn't the on the forefront of that chapter.

IIRC Camilla outright says she's going to kill Corrin in Birthright.

"I will do what I must to pierce your body with my blade. Then I will cradle you in my arms, like when you were a child."

or words to that effect

yeah, she goes full on murderous in birthright.

@Camilla also threatens to chop off Serenas legs if she ever tried to leave her I recall as well.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jul 20th 2018 at 10:37:17 AM

Call me terrible, but now I want to see a comic where Owain, Severa and Inigo have returned to Ylisse and are just hanging out with Lucina, then Camilla out of nowhere, chopping off Severa's legs.

Xander does mention that he heard from Iago that she failed her mission, so I don't think he's too surprised that she hasn't come back yet drenched in blood.

Now I'm wondering if the two older brothers would've stopped seeing red during the battle if more of the royal siblings had been around. I would think that if Elise had been in the area, Xander would definitely falter a bit, especially given how he seems to have a soft spot for her. Maybe.

By the way, this is on the subject of Three Houses again, but can someone with better eyes than mine confirm if there's a place called "Edmund" on the map? I mentioned in an earlier post that I spotted a Regan and a Goneril, so if there is a place called Edmund, I'm now wondering what sort of places they are considering that Regan, Goneril, and Edmund weren't exactly the nicest people in King Lear.