Gun Porn!

More recent MP-443's have rails.

And a laser/light dealie too. It's very square.

If you’ve seen the rails I’m sure you know why they aren’t considered adequate. They’re basically a tiny aftermarket rail section screwed into that little piece of real estate at the bottom of the frame. They can’t even use lasers on them since the rails like to shake loose while shooting and the lasers lose zero.

There’s a lot of advantages to a polymer framed handgun, that’s why you always see the elite Russian guys with Glocks.

Unfortunately, it seems the era of large all-metal service pistols is ending.

Edited by archonspeaks on Feb 9th 2019 at 4:56:15 AM

I hate polymer frame handguns though

They make me sad

I don't hate the so called "plastic guns". I just don't like the ones that decide the idea of a manual safety is stupid.

If I were President I'd be prohibiting police and military from issuing or using pistols without them. Meaning any firearm in police/military use without them must either have one installed or be retired. Private citizens would be untouched, if they want to be stupid and suffer Glock leg that's on them.

Speaking as someone who’s has a lot of experience carrying a Glock, while I prefer a manual safety not having it really isn’t that big a deal. It definitely makes it more suitable for law enforcement applications.

Catch me in 2045 clutching my CZ, hiding in my basement from polymer frames and automatic safeties.

Counterpoint: The rate of accidental and negligent discharges (Glock leg or otherwise) jumps substantially in any police unit that transitions from a manual safety service pistol/revolver to one without.

Training (or lack thereof) can only account for part of those incidents. At minimum the manual safety is a moron check.

Evidence for those incidents are anecdotal at best, and given that most police departments didn’t adequately track NDs in the 80s and 90s it’s hard to know how true it is.

At worst it’s a difference that can be compensated for with training. Pistols with no safety require a different manual of arms and you have to teach that from the beginning.

Edited by archonspeaks on Feb 10th 2019 at 11:03:06 AM

Most of the high profile ND's that make the news in the past 10 years have been by cops or other law enforcement types. (Plaxico Burress being the exception, not the rule.) They had such an ND make the news in Denver this week. A cop gets suspended because whoops ND. Denver PD hasn't had service revolvers since the 1970s.

There was also the famous case of the FBI moron in Denver last year who shot another patron in a nightclub because the gun fell out of his holster and stupidly reached to catch it causing an ND that would not have happened with a manual safety engaged.

Training can't compensate for snags, light pulls, poor holsters and a myriad other reasons. Just cause your booger hook's off the bang switch doesn't mean it absolutely can't go bang on a firearm sans manual safety.

At minimum it's a moron check any way you cut it. Don't engage it before holstering, you're a moron. Don't disengage it before shooting, you're a moron. It proves who the morons are. Firearms sans manual safeties cover up and cover for the morons.

Edited by MajorTom on Feb 11th 2019 at 6:40:07 AM

Tom: That so much stupid bullshit I don't know where to begin.

No, the vast majority of negligent discharges are from civilians especially high profile ones that result in injury or death. Simple statistics undermine you here.

The FBI uses the Sig P226 and P228. Both have 9+lbs of trigger pull to fire a properly decocked and holstered pistol. You have to be doing something pretty damn stupid to have a negligent discharge with that high of a trigger pull for the double action. I would also point out it is almost impossible to have an ND with a holstered firearm unless you are being incredibly stupid. Nearly every single example comes from someone carrying in a load state not safe for the firearm and holster.

Actually yes training can account for nearly every single one of these incidents because training can help you avoid them. Wow, look at that something that is done with many shooting courses and even a larger number of concealed carry courses cover this. I mean it isn't like the military and police focus heavily on training to avoid ND or anything...oh wait. Gee look at that they still have a notable number of idiots with ND's using guns with manual safeties. That's right Tom it isn't about the damn safety it is the person holding the gun. People with your kind of attitude are why the military has to TRAIN people to not carry an M-16 in condition 1 outside of imminent action. Even the M9 which has the most safeties built into out of any military handgun ever used and is crazy safe, still has an alarming number of negligent discharges because some dumbass improperly handled the weapon.

If you are really that damn ignorant about negligent discharges and the importance of training, I wouldn't want you anywhere near me on the firing line. ND happens even with manual safeties quite often. The manual safety does not ever remove the negligent discharge risk. It is not a talisman against individual stupidity by any stretch of the imagination. The ONLY proven method is a combination of training and individual care.

As we saw in the famous court case against Glock, evidence that ND’s are more likely with a Glock is circumstancial at best. For civilians, Glocks are the most common variety of pistol meaning they’re often in the hands of new shooters who would ND regardless of what they were carrying. For law enforcement, there isn’t really any evidence pointing to ND’s being more common, only that officers who were prone to an ND anyways are more likely to carry a Glock, since it’s the most common law enforcement pistol in the US. As Tuefel pointed out with the M9 manual safties are in no way a moron check, since if you’re a moron when it comes to firearm safety you probably won’t even engage the safety to begin with. The number of people I’ve seen carrying handguns “cocked and unlocked” is pretty staggering.

If you’re following the four basic laws of firearm safety, which you always should be whether you have a manual safety or not, then you won’t have any issue. You don’t put your finger on the trigger until the moment you’re ready to shoot, and you aren’t ready to shoot until you’re ready to destroy whatever you’re pointing your weapon at. People who are prone to ND’s due to poor training are just as dangerous with or without a manual safety.

Really, I think the reason people love complaining about Glocks is because they completely defeated conventional American wisdom on handguns when they popped up. Everything about the design ran contrary to what you saw in US handgun design at the time, and yet somehow it worked.

Edited by archonspeaks on Feb 11th 2019 at 3:09:40 AM

Such as catching it after it falls out of your holster in a nightcliub...

I saw the video. He didn't catch it. It was on the ground and the idiot jammed his finger right in the trigger guard to pick it up. You know instead of stopping to grab the grip the dumbass pushed his finger right into the trigger guard.

I’ll point out that all of what he did violates basic firearm safety whether your handgun has a manual safety or not. You never try to catch a falling weapon, and your finger never enters the trigger guard until the weapon is pointed at a target.

Given that guy’s apparent disregard for basic safety practices, it’s just as likely if he was carrying a handgun with a manual safety he would have been carrying it unlocked and made the same mistake.

He also had a holster not suited to the activity he was doing.

Having a good holster is critical. So few people make good holster choices.

Good upload from Gun Jesus if you're into British sniper rifles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0IvoKwvEbs

Frelling Ministry of Defence bastards ensured an unhappy ending for most of the L 96 A 1 rifles.

Hey Tuffy. It looks like H&K understands there market◊

and yes thats there actual social media

Lol. That was great.

English language HK social media can be surprisingly jokey.

That's a heck of a review.

Well written but still falls into some of the A-10 memes.

But really, it gave me a good laugh so who cares?

Edited by LeGarcon on Apr 1st 2019 at 1:42:14 PM

Look at the date gar, memes were half the point.

I lost it here.

I must admit I started laughing when I started reading, and kept on doing so until I had stopped.

5 Rare And Unusual Firearms Seen in May 2019 Rock Island Premiere Firearms Auction Catalog.

Number 4 says Talk to the Fist.