Adventure Time

It's a 1000 years later, why would any character's death be in question?

Finn's Dad dealio is done, he had nothing more to offer. The last episode focusing on Sweet Pea pretty much sealed the deal with the Lich. The Vampire King was the reason Marceline turned into that giant smoke thing.

Fern didn't even change sides, the only reason he was "bad" is because he couldn't handle not being the real Finn.

Beemo isn't living in the Tree House, he's living at the top of an area mentioned in episode 5.

Gumbald literally had another bottle of dum dum juice for something like that happening, she tripped him because she already knew about it. He's suppose to be like if PB never went through development, which is accurate...

I didnt think the show was going to last either. Still, while I did give the show a chance and watched it on and off, I didnt really get into it until the middle of season 6 for some reason. Even though it was kind of a mediocre season in retrospect (there were entire episodes that were nothing but foreshadowing), I started appreciating it for what it was, and after watching older episodes that I previously hadn't seen I learned more and more about the world and the mythology of AT, and I REALLY got into the Stakes and Islands miniseries. On a side note, Its kind of a shame that "arc-based" comedy cartoons seem to be fading. AT and Regular Show are both gone, as is Gravity Falls. All we've got right now are Star Vs and Steven Universe (and Venture Brothers too I suppose).

1,000 years later isn't... the problem? How their deaths happened was? I was curious if they all died during the war because I could see Adventure Time doing just that. It did, afterall, end with Simon losing Betty and just... living with it, apparently.

We had several characters show up doing random things in the montage, including Finn's mother returning, but we didn't see Martin.

Last I checked the Vampire King is still a separate consciousness in Marceline's brain/a hallucination she was seeing. The show leaves this part unexplained and leaves the audience to assume he either faded away or didn't matter. For a show that's had various foreshadowings and teases, it's an odd thing to leave behind. I guess she assimilated his power yes - but we never saw her hallucinate any of the other vampires.

So... Fern changed sides then? At one point he was on Team Gumbald and wanted to kill Finn, and the next he's with Bonnibel and fighting alongside Finn and his allies.

Fair about BMO. Stil bugs me that Shirley and not-Jake took the Finn Sword all willy-nilly.

And another thing that bugged me now that I think about it - the resolution to the Grass Demon/Fern thing. I'm not sure which episode the "nightmare crystal" came from, but it sends them all to an astral realm where Finn is able to finally (and rather hastily) destroy the grass demon possessing Fern. Or maybe it didn't, but the rushing of the Marcy and PB storyline, the Simon and Betty storyline, the Gumbald storyline, the Golb storyline made this event feel smaller somehow.

I guess you would say, "It had nothing more to offer, that storyline." Well, I think it did, but I think they got stressed for time and decided to wrap it up prematurely, which is something I can live with but isn't something I'm willing to discard either.

I missed this part. So he had the juice ready to splash in PB's face and double-cross her. Hm.

Edited by Soble on Sep 5th 2018 at 9:13:01 AM

Martin chose to live up a new plane of existence, regardless of the Finn finally understanding him, we never saw what happened and he's still a "bad" person. There's no way to show what happened to him that would make sense...

The Nightmare Crystal Juice came from the episode "orb"...from the Nightmare Princess.

Vampire King faded away the moment that idea came up...like as in, it just didn't matter and her actually taking his powers is the only thing that did.

I wouldn't call Marcy and PB's thing rushed...since, that's been slowly wrapping up since Season 7. This was just an actual resolution to it.

Edited by randomness4 on Sep 5th 2018 at 8:52:40 AM

"Too profitable to end"?? Tell me, how is a show that barely airs, or even reruns, and gets its schedule shifted all the time, with hiatuses in-between them, and the slimmest of marketing, "profitable"?

The shot of Simon talking to Prismo indicated to me that he's been doing a lot of searching for a cure, the way Betty did for him.

Finn "fixing" Fern and the Finn Sword wouldn't have made sense until the Nightmare Crystal was introduced in "Orb" then.

Martin could have been seen in space, or at any point during the dream sequence like Lady and Jake's kids were. I'm pretty sure that's why they had the dream sequence.

It feels more like a missed opportunity than an intentional writing choice.

Rushing isn't the best word, but I was saying that the Grass Sword storyline's resolution feels crammed into the resolution of several other storylines, including the PB and Marcy one.

Martin's not in space...and he's only in the scene with Finn and Fern seeing their Vault nightmares because Finn still thinks negatively of him.

There's nuts to work with.

Edited by randomness4 on Sep 5th 2018 at 9:16:24 AM

My issue with the Marceline/Bubblegum thing was that it didn't happen sooner. We're kind of hitting a point where, in a world where Steven Universe is having completely unapologetic lesbian weddings in the middle of a season, having same-sex couples getting together at the last minute is getting kind of tame.

Can you prove that he's not somewhere in space? Because all this scene told me was that he got a new "mode" and disappeared.

I missed him being in Finn and Fern's nightmares. If he really did show up there - I was busy looking for the evil Shoko-worm - then that's what I'm asking for. I thought he hadn't appeared at all.

It's hard for me to be satisfied with "they had nuts to work with" given how wild and experimental this show is.

Edited by Soble on Sep 5th 2018 at 9:27:55 AM

With how wild this show is, they tend to go for some pretty tame stuff...though you can gather whatever from that scene. Seeing as again, they didn't show what happened.

Is that really not the same? The only thing that happened was that they kissed on screen...and the SU episode that has that, wasn't too long ago.

Moving forward and stuff.

Edited by randomness4 on Sep 5th 2018 at 9:34:59 AM

Steven Universe did a whole story arc about the wedding, according to what I just googled, and there was a kiss on the cheek when the "groom" proposed, and during the wedding of course.

AT's queer subplot was a bit more tame, and honestly it took me a little while to see the subtext. It's more noticeable than in Korra, where Asami and Korra getting together felt a little out of left field unless you were paying crisp attention apparently. Here though, yeah, Marceline's song about PB, the episode where they went to rescue Hambo, and the episode where they went into Simon's subconscious - that was pretty easy to read. Then they kissed.

I suppose they could have pushed the envelope further and done this sooner, but I have two theories on that:

• it has more impact being part of the finale because this is the last time these characters will be animated and voiced - if this had happened in Season 5 or 6 somewhere my last, strongest memory of Adventure Time wouldn't be "PB and Marcy kissed!"
• if the Mary Sue is to be believed, the network wouldn't have wanted an on-screen kiss because the show airs in places where same-sex relationships are heavily frowned upon - so it's kind of ingenious building towards Bubbline over several seasons then throwing the kiss in at the end, if problematic as a visibility issue. Because by that point, the only thing an unhappy networks can do is not air the episode, and given how popular AT is that would... well who knows if you can actually lower CN's reputation at this point, but it would have done something I'm sure.

Edited by Soble on Sep 5th 2018 at 9:51:06 AM

Voltron also had its most dynamic character Shirogane be revealed to be gay in its latest season. Though unlike his illness it wasn't really hinted at and he doesn't have a love interest unless one has shipling goggles.

Why did you say kiss on the cheek-o in regards to the SU wedding?

The article I was reading showed a clip of when the red Gem proposed - the blue Gem (Lazuli?) pecks her on the cheek. Later, there's a full-on kiss, but I only saw a screenshot of it.

I guess I made the distinction to support the idea that Steven Universe approached this idea more overtly than Adventure Time did. Adventure Time usually just showed Marceline and PB being emotionally close, having spats, and didn't show a kiss until later. Steven Universe did that, but also had more physical signs of affection.

So that's why I've been seeing Voltron in my Wikia feeds lately.

Edited by Soble on Sep 5th 2018 at 10:35:08 AM

Yet it's the on-screen wedding kiss that's somehow better.

Edited by randomness4 on Sep 5th 2018 at 10:24:54 AM

If you meant "they" by meaning "The SU characters did more than that" then I thought that this wedding stuff had been a recent event.

If you meant "Marcy and PB have done more than that," I can't recall them doing much more than that. They've hugged and worked together, but I don't think it meant as much as an on-screen kiss.

Whereas SU had a wedding proposal and that's... well, don't look at me, I'm not really the guy to argue why this is better or more important. Pretty much calling it as I see it here.

Edited by Soble on Sep 5th 2018 at 10:34:40 AM

I'm saying the Wedding kiss is somehow more forwarding than something 3 seasons earlier that is actually a bit racy to shown on a kids show.

The Lich hand was distributed to every universe, so even if the Lich is gone in Ooo he still exists as a problem in all the other universes. The hand's going to be especially problematic if it's a universe where another active Lich is present

Don't know if anyone read this, but here's another interview with Adam Muto.

As for Finn's love life: did everyone forgot he's with HW since the beginning of the final season and they never broke up at all during the finale? They left their relationship open ended. Maybe Season 11 will expand on it, even if it's not canon.

Don't let how gay Steven Universe is make you think that getting queer content into children's cartoons is easy now. Rebecca Sugar had to fight her ass off every step of the way to make Steven Universe the way it is. Saying that two girls kissing in a children's cartoon is no longer a big deal just doesn't make sense when it's like the second one ever.

That's a very good point. It might not be pushing the envelope anymore, but it's not nothing.

I thought they'd agreed that they weren't meant for each other and...

Well glob I guess I missed this Wild Hunt episode too.

Edited by Soble on Sep 6th 2018 at 7:10:04 AM

Oh don't get me wrong, it's still a big deal. I just hope for the days where it's no longer one and more shows start devoting time to actually developing same-sex relationships after they get together.

Also on a related note, we need dudes to kiss more in cartoons.

Edited by LordVatek on Sep 6th 2018 at 10:23:48 AM

Yeah, you may be right about the blueballs Gumbald war gave, but to be honest, it was obvious I couldn't have been anything else, I mean, they're candy troops, they... don't do action. Sure Gumbald's laser was cool, it showed that the war could have been exciting after all, and PB is smart, she could have been able to create something similar, but the fact she didn't and instead opted to keep with her banana troops maybe was a sing that that laser wasn't as dangerous as it looked. Something they could have done is follow up on Finn's statement, about the war continuing way after the first confrontation, but then, that would have make the ending uniformly sad through it's course instead of the rollercoaster of emotions it was.

About the characters that didn't appear... they actually did, just not directly, cause most of them were dead. The only ones that should probably have appeared were The Lich and the Vampire King, but in The Lich case, his appareance wasn't necessary, I just would have liked if they explained his origins better.

Edited by Gabo352 on Sep 6th 2018 at 10:40:32 AM