Fallout: New Vegas

Avellone always struck me as some self-absorbed blowhard. And add this dingleberry on top of the crapcake... yeah.

Edited by Dhiruxide on Jun 22nd 2020 at 2:06:32 PM

As a writer, if you're working on a shared universe and there's something about it you don't like, you should find a way to make it interesting. Not have a character rant about why you hate it.

And I couldn't tell what Ulysses was trying to say half the time. He had a good actor, but the only thing I remember as a really good character moment was the audio log where he talked about the White Legs.

I've read up on it, and uhhhh... i won't repeat it here.

This is pretty ridiculous.

Oh yeah, in the recent years of exposes of scumbags, it's great that it has emboldened victims to speak out.

Granted, i do fear at times innocent until proven guilty is being forgotten.

Speaking as a Star Wars fan, i do feel Avellone was more respectful to star wars than say Traviss. And it is telling that Avellone did regret how heavy handed he was with Kotor 2 unlike Traviss who kept clashing with other star wars authors and rejects the canon Mandolorians for being pacifists.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 22nd 2020 at 5:09:18 AM

> Granted, i do fear at times innocent until proven guilty is being forgotten.

Thats too bad because the court of Twitter does not believe in due process or any aspect of a fair trial

Twitter is a terrible place anyway.

The Internet is no place for nuance.

Also Vault Boy Mii Brawler

Deathclaw assist when?

Liberty Prime assist. Literally nukes your opponents.

Cazador Boss hopefully never

I can't say it's unwarranted, but it feels really bad being the only person here who liked Chris' writing in KOTOR 2 and New Vegas only to hear this. Feels like all his critics got vindicated hard.

Like I said, it's best not to get too emotionally invested in anyone or anything you have no direct control over.

You're not the only fan of his, and I've spoken up for him more than once on this thread and others (I do like KOTOR 2, PS:Torment, Dead Money, even something as relatively small as Into the Breach), but I don't feel like this is the moment to leap to defend his work. It'll still be there once all the facts are out, but it shouldn't overshadow the controversy. It's not an excuse.

I've kind of been bracing for something since Alpha Protocol. I don't know if it's at all related, but that game had a troubled production, Brian Mitsoda and Annie VanderMeer left the company afterwards, and FNV, the game after that, seems to mark the point when Avellone starting moving/being moved off to one side, working on largely self-contained DLC and companions who didn't interact much with the rest of the party. I might be reading too much into things, it might be entirely unrelated, but that did seem like a red flag and there was always a cloud of silence over the issue.

Well, you'd never get invested in anyone or anything if you did that. The risk can sometimes be worth it — not every artist you admire inevitably lets you down. But yeah, you do need to be careful.

Edited by Unsung on Jun 22nd 2020 at 12:06:58 PM

Believe me I'm not trying to downplay anything here. It's just been a long time since anyone I cared about was exposed like this, so I ended up saying whatever leaped to my mind at the time. You're right about this not being the time for it.

Edited by VeryMelon on Jun 22nd 2020 at 12:05:11 PM

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was accusing you. I was mostly just explaining my own relative silence.

That's cool dude.

Yeah, Unsung's got a point. His critics and his writing aren't on trial here.

I was also a bit confused as to how they would be "vindicated" upon learning he's a creep. Like, him being a creep doesn't make criticisms of his writing automatically right.

If people were making ad homninem criticisms based on his writing, well, um. Screw them?

Edit: Not trying to press harshly, here.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jun 22nd 2020 at 12:09:08 PM

nah you're right, and the fact that he is a good writer (imo) makes it worse in a lot of ways. if he hadn't written things that i fell in love with, i wouldn't care that he turned out to be a shit (except insofar as i care whenever any random schmuck turns out to be a shit).

I haven’t played KOTOR 2, so I can’t really speak to that (though I think some of it sounds interesting). As for New Vegas...honestly not sure how much of it is him, so it’s hard to feel broken up about it, I guess? Either way, never had especially strong feelings towards him.

I believe he wrote most of Lonesome Road on his own and Ulysses was essentially his mouthpiece, especially in regards to the NCR.

Still haven’t played Lonesome Road yet.

Suddenly, killing Ulysses becomes a lot more satisfying.

yeah i was thinking ill probably kill him rather than talk him down from here on out

To be honest, i never really did spare him in any run. I always felt his motive was petty.

I talked him down because it made the following fight easier. And it felt more satisfying to get him to admit he's full of it.

Speaking as one of the people who is criticizing Avellone's writing, though, I do not feel vindicated at all. You can have problems with your writing and still be a good person.

I also don't think you can tell a person is good or bad by their writing.