World Of Warcraft

Going to go do it as an Alliance Draenei now.

Finally, an Azeroth story again.

EDIT: Oh, let's see if Calia will be a good leader for the Forsaken then.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 31st 2022 at 10:39:45 AM

Courtesy spoiler tags please.

Also the server is going crazy, no one can get to Oribos RN.

This might take a while.

EDIT: Okay, so a couple of world servers are down.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 31st 2022 at 10:59:37 AM

Looks like the Shadowlands instance servers are blowing up so can't do much there, managed to get the Tirisfal and the post-story scene finished.

Honestly, I enjoyed the Tirisfal stuff, I feel like the scene with Calia in the throne room felt like a better conclusion to Warcraft 3's leftover story than whatever they were trying to pull with Arthas' soul, and it seems like it's established a good way forward for the Forsaken.

Managed to do the quest:

Yeah they did the smart thing and just revived the desolate council.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 31st 2022 at 2:54:48 PM

Agreed, reforming the Desolate Council was the right move. Like the Horde as a whole, it makes sense that the Forsaken have somewhat soured on the idea of having a single absolute ruler. Having Calia on the council lets Blizzard still use the character in a leadership capacity in the Forsaken where it makes sense, but no one is expected to follow her just because of her name.

On the note of the Night Elf cinematic, my interpretation is that the souls that went into the seed will be reborn as the seed sprouts. Either as Wisp spirits or some other nature spirit within the tree and will become part of the cycle of renewal, yet I see many people treating it as a forgone conclusion that the souls are simply gone now and I'm a little confused by this.

My thought is that since they used the all-to-familiar soulkeeper animation, the concept of a soul going into a seed in Ardenweld usually means we'll see that soul again, and the framing as it being unambiguously positive rather than bittersweet lends me to the idea that the souls will be reborn in some fashion.

Edited by Falrinn on Jun 1st 2022 at 5:03:28 AM

It is very much culturally fitting. The Kaldorei have served after death as wisps for thousands of years, they are used to this type of service.

Certainly. Overall I get that it's not as explicit as perhaps it could be, but I feel like if it was supposed to be a great sacrifice on the part of the souls, it would be framed in a much more bittersweet fashion as such sacrifices have been portrayed consistently.

TBH, most of the story quest was actually good. Blizzard are well aware of the reception of Calia's character and incorporated it into the plot, so we have people like Belmont who don't like her at all but is willing to work with her on the Council for the future of the Forsaken. My only complaint is her conversation with the Margrave on how she was raised to undeath, the problem with Calia is that she was raised by the light, can have positive emotions, and is pretty despite being a corpse. The rest of the Forsaken are raised by horrific magic that leaves their soul imperfectly tethered to their body, struggle to feel positive emotions and are walking corpses. Like you can see the difference between Voss and Calia at the cinematic even. The main problem is that Calia had a fundamental difference in the experience of being undead that separates her from the rest of the Forsaken.

But I'll be optimistic here, they stuck the landing with the desolate council and Calia was overall decent as a character and a rep for the Forsaken. They have time to address the issues over Calia later, I'm still a bit on the fence, but I feel sold that they can develop Calia later on in the future and make her work and we have other Forsaken characters the fandom can latch on if she doesn't work. There's also the bit that she's an Alliance character leading a Horde faction but it does tie into the whole faction team up thing that's happening in Dragonflight so it might work.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 1st 2022 at 8:28:54 AM

Also, here's some "closure" to a story if you've done the storylines all the way through. Ve'nari has been replaced with a hologram in the Maw, telling you she went to check out Zereth Mortis. If you go there, you find her corpse near the creation catalyst, having apparently been slain by Cartel Ve since she finally left her safe zone. BUT if you're both max rep with her and an engineer, you notice multiple inconsistencies that make you question if it's truly her corpse you're looking at. Remember, Rule #1, always have an escape plan.

Edited by NaraNumas on Jun 1st 2022 at 7:36:28 AM

Rumors indicate she changed her identity to a familiar old lady sniper /s

Is Alonsus Faol part of the new council? Also, does anyone know what happened to Nathanos?

Edited by Druplesnubb on Jun 1st 2022 at 11:06:25 AM

Nope. The current lineup is Lilian Voss, Calia Menethil, Deathstalker Commander Belmont, Dark Ranger Velonara, and Master Apothecary Faranell. Alonsus Faol is present for the events of the questline, but it's not clear what his status in the Forsaken is at the moment.

And honestly I think he'd be redundant with Calia since they would both function in the same role.

I can only imagine what Genn and Jaina's reactions to this will be. Jaina will probably be okay with it since she let go of her old bitterness at the start of BFA, but Genn has shown repeatedly that he's not going to stop being bitter about the Alliance-Horde peace anytime soon.

Don't need to imagine Genn's reaction since he gets a letter from Calia at the end of the Alliance version of the chain. He's actually kind of hopeful in spite of himself as Calia promises to work towards negotiating the Forsaken's withdrawal from Gilneas.

Now I was sort of surprised that the Forsaken were still in Gilneas. However it seems like every time Gilneas gets mentioned the faction controlling it has reversed since last time it was mentioned. Since the last time it was brought up was in BfA mission table text when the Alliance held it, it stands to reason the Horde control it now. Beyond that it's simply a matter of the treaty ending the 4th war to simply leave territorial control where it was, with land exchanges to be worked out later...and then half the people who would need to agree to such exchanges for them to be effective got yoinked into the Shadowlands.

Edited by Falrinn on Jun 1st 2022 at 5:15:23 AM

I'm happy with these outcomes. There's the ever-unresolved question of whether Blizzard planned all along to conclude these stories in a minor patch or if community feedback motivated them, but in the end it doesn't really matter.

Yeah for such a short update, there was quite a good amount of story wins.

Even the Sylvanas and Anduin scene was less excruciating than I expected.

So lore question, are Anduin and Baine friends or something? I keep seeing jokes about that.

Anduin and Baine formed an Odd Friendship during the buildup novel to Cataclysm, to the point of Anduin having gifted Baine a light-enchanted mace (which he gave back either after the bombing of Theramore or the burning of Teldrassil, I can't remember which, feeling he didn't deserve it out of shame for what the Horde was doing).

They're probably the most affable leaders to each other on both factions, for better or for worse. I know that Baine's friendship with Anduin tends to cause The Usual Suspects to go into a frothy-mouthed rage whenever the factions cooperate on something.

Edited by NaraNumas on Jun 1st 2022 at 12:03:20 PM

Oh that's interesting, I just assumed it was a meme because they were the most peace loving members in their faction.

The Forsaken conversation is interesting as it seems to imply that any of the kinds of Magic can be used to Raise the Dead. Light, Void/Shadow, Arcane, Nature, Fel/Chaos, and Death can all do it. Which given stuff like the Drust actually reinforces that. So there are some interesting questions on how the Forsaken can continue from here on.

That's the thing, while the story tries to claim necromancy is necromancy, there is a fundamental difference between Forsaken, Death Knights, and whatever the hell Calia is. She was raised by the light, she doesn't look like a rotting corpse and can still feel positive emotions, all the other forsaken would be in constant agony if channel the light, their souls are imperfectly attached to their body, and mostly feel negative emotions.

Oh they are different, that's not a question, but that does imply the Forsaken Might have Alternatives from now on with this Revelation, the Forsaken could start looking into new ways to increase numbers and even new avenues of Research. They are talking about expanding class and race combinations and that could easily lead to that. Study the Drust and the Life Creatures from Draenor (Remember they made Nature Magic Undead via Spores.) by Researching the Botani that followed us back from Draenor (Possibly have the Forsaken and maybe another Race, hilariously maybe the Druid Races or Vulpera.) try and get the Horde to Recruit the Botani for that purpose among others, justifying it to the Horde to fix their Lumber and Food Problems. Could Easily lead to Forsaken Druids. And that's just Nature Styled Necromancy, we still haven't even brought up Fel or Arcane styles.

Well, remember it's not exactly new information, but it is a strong clarification that ultimately it's just pedantry to try to claim that Death-raised undead are the only "real" undead. We know of two undead raised by non-Death magic in Felmyst, the blue dragon that was rapidly revived as a Fel aspected dracolich by Brutallus' blood, and Meryl Felstorm, who has always been described as having naturally slipped into Undeath by being so strong in the order-based Arcane magics that even when his body gave up, his power kept him alive and going (albeit, that may have been retconned since it was from the Knaak comics, which they've been pretty scattershot on acknowledging bits of as canon).

The main appeal for me of having Carlia Menathil have some kind of leadership of the Forsaken is that it pretty much voids the Alliance's claim over Lorderon.

The Alliance can't claim that Lorderon was historically belonging to the Alliance when it's in part governed by the heir to the Lorderon throne.

Carlia's history trump's the Alliance's history.