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Swordofknowledge from I like it here... (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#1: May 9th 2022 at 7:32:08 AM

Not the best title but it's the most accurate one I could come up with to fit this question.

My main protagonist's homeland is divided into four separate domains, each ruled over by someone I'll just refer to as a "Lesser King" for lack of a better title.

The kingdom has a custom where at certain age, every person living in these regions is tattooed on their face with the area's crest, marking them as a citizen of that land (for example my protagonist's area has its citizens faces tattooed with four vertical bars placed from cheekbone to cheekbone in a horizontal line).

How would one make this an enforced rule? Would it be implemented as a holiday of some kind or a kind of seasonal affair like taxes, except that this is when everyone takes their children to be tattooed?

A slightly lesser issue is also how to deal with moving citizens across the borders of the territories belonging to each Lesser King, since the tattoos are permanent marks. Although this isn't really something I'm too worried about since there are multiple ways around this problem.

Edited by Swordofknowledge on May 9th 2022 at 10:33:26 AM

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#2: May 9th 2022 at 7:35:42 AM

Add "Human Rights" to the Tattoo and if someone doesn't have it then they simply have no "human rights" in that domain to speak of.

Swordofknowledge from I like it here... (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3: May 9th 2022 at 7:52:12 AM

[up] @ Titan Jump:

Yes I suppose it could be one of those "citizen/not-a-citizen" dichotomies I've seen in fiction. Where if you don't have the tattoo past a certain age, you won't be punished per-se but anyone can do anything to you with impunity...yes knowing how people act, that could be one hell of an incentive.

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
minseok42 A Self-inflicted Disaster from A Six-Tatami Room (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
A Self-inflicted Disaster
#4: May 9th 2022 at 9:52:43 AM

What are the tech levels in your verse? In modern times, in some countries for example, if your name isn't on the government database of citizens, it would be extremely difficult to get a job or open a bank account.

Before modern times, maybe getting tattooed could be a rite of passage of sorts? Culturally, walking around without the tattoo would be like walking around naked.

Also, it would depend on how the government is structured in your fictional kingdom. If people did not have that much of a sense of national identity, or if most of the government's work was done at the municipal level, and the central government had a very small role, not being tattooed would not be much of a problem if you knew everyone in your village and they were fine with it. However, if your country had a centralized bureaucracy, or if people traveled a lot (because a lot of people were merchants or nomads) then expect the government to crack down on people without tattoos, or make life difficult for them such as excluding them for welfare benefits, making them ineligible for government jobs, banning them from owning real estate, or not saving them from disasters.

Edited by minseok42 on May 10th 2022 at 1:58:15 AM

"Enshittification truly is how platforms die"-Cory Doctorow
Swordofknowledge from I like it here... (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#5: May 9th 2022 at 11:03:31 AM

[up]@ minseok42

What are the tech levels in your verse?

Well it varies; the technology is different around the world. Although the most technologically advanced and powerful kingdom is around 1400s-era tech with muskets, cannons, and large ships that can traverse huge expanses of sea (this particular nation is inspired by the Spanish conquistadors).

More in line with the question, the kingdom where this tattooing practice happens is around 10th century level tech; it's modeled in part after the seafaring Norse cultures.

Before modern times, maybe getting tattooed could be a rite of passage of sorts? Culturally, walking around without the tattoo would be like walking around naked.

That's a large part of where I am stuck, actually. I'm trying to decide if the tattooing is done in the form of some sort of holiday where parents gather their children in the town square to get tattooed and there are accompanying celebrations, or if it will be a more subdued government-mandated thing, orderly and regimented.

Culturally yes, the tattoos are deeply important. I didn't even think of it being considered "lacking" or "embarrassing" like being naked, but it is intended to be very startling to see someone without a facial tattoo, since it denotes your homeland and thus your allegiance. There isn't a lot of movement between territories (there is movement between cities but people rarely actually leave the borders of their Lesser King's territory and cross into another) so there isn't much worry about moving.

I can explain a little more if you like, I just feel like I'm rambling though lol. To answer your last question, there is a centralized bureaucracy of a sort, although like everything else, these are limited to the domains of the Kings.

The lack of rights you described for people lacking tattoos is a good incentive to ensure people get them—-those "punishments" are the default position of any outsider who visits or comes from a whole different land entirely, so it could be seen as being "lowered to the level of an outlander" which adds a bit of shame too.

Edited by Swordofknowledge on May 9th 2022 at 2:03:51 PM

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
minseok42 A Self-inflicted Disaster from A Six-Tatami Room (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
A Self-inflicted Disaster
#6: May 9th 2022 at 11:24:13 AM

[up]Again, it would depend on the politics and culture of your kingdom. If people had a strong sense of regional identity and loyalty to their land, people without tattoos would be shunned, and getting tattooed would be a celebration, akin to circumcision in some Abrahamic religions or baptism in Christian cultures. This might be a custom, not a law, if it is not used as a passport that often, or if it's not linked to registering for taxation/welfare benefits.

If however, this was only introduced after the advent of a bureaucracy that has extensive control of the whole sub-kingdom (rather than delegating most things to the local lords/chiefs), then tattoos would be like a seal certifying that each citizen is registered in the government databases. In this case, some people would not like getting tattooed, as it means the government can come and tax them. People may be punished or be excluded from benefits provided by the sub-kingdom's central government if they refuse to be tattooed. Remember, even in modern times, there are people who are 'invisible' from the government, such as undocumented immigrants. People without tattoos would suffer from similar difficulties.

Or, it could be a mix of both. In countries that still practice conscription, serving in the military is a duty levied by the government, just like paying taxes, and people don't like doing so. Yet at the same time, military service is a rite of passage, and those who try to dodge the draft are not considered 'real men'. Maybe your kingdoms might have all sorts of traditions and laws regarding tattoos, like how military service is treated in countries where it is mandatory.

Edited by minseok42 on May 10th 2022 at 3:32:18 AM

"Enshittification truly is how platforms die"-Cory Doctorow
ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#7: May 9th 2022 at 3:43:16 PM

So, a major problem facing most medieval nations in Europe is the lack of state capacity (this is the problem feudalism solves, it breaks things down to the point where you don't need a major centralized bureaucracy). It sounds like you have some of that bureaucracy, but not that much? You've identified the two main ways you can go, personally, in this case, I'd let world building follow emotion.

Are you trying to cast the Kings as domineering/controlling individuals imposing their will on their subjects, or as inheritors of ancient traditions, which they follow and live up to?

And this doesn't have to be static. Maybe in most places, you go with the later, it's a coming of age ritual, no different than a bar mitzvah or something. It could be done at a religious festival for everyone born in the year, or as part of more formal oath-taking to a representative of the kings who makes a circuit as the children become adults.

But in some places (maybe conquered lands only somewhat integrated over centuries?) it has to be more forced and watched over by guards and state officials.

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