Hi. This is my first time making a thread here so I'm sorry in advance if I do anything wrong. I just wanted to find the answer to the question I've been asking but there's no reply in the thread "Is this an example?" when I put it there, so I decided to make a new thread about it. Here's what I wrote over there:
I would like to ask for advice regarding what qualifies as an example of What the Hell, Hero?. Recently, I added an example on Film/SHAZAM!(2019) page regarding one character calling out the hero for causing property damage and almost a loss of life because of his reckless display of power, but others deleted it and said it does not qualify as an example because as the definition on this page provided, an example needs to be "exclusively about scenes where the hero is called on his morally ambiguous or directly evil actions by characters in the story." The tropers who deleted it feel that the example I added failed the 'morally ambiguous' part.
My gripe is this: what qualifies as an example of this trope is unclear when going by the trope name at first glance. I mean, when you see a trope named "What the Hell, Hero?", you would expect an example given in a story in which someone calling out a hero for any action that caused harm would qualify, morally ambiguous or not, right? In this story, the hero's actions directly caused harm to others and his friend rightfully calling him out on it, even if it was not his intention. His mistake could've caused serious injury or death if he didn't manage to reverse the situation. Also, why is the definition of the trope only limited to actions that are morally ambiguous or outright evil only in the first place, when any action committed by a hero could be called out by their friends if they find such action unheroic?
So, to sum up, I personally think there should be a more clear definition regarding the trope, or at least a trope name repair, to address the misinterpretation of the trope, because like I mentioned above, the trope name itself doesn't really provide a clear definition. At the moment, it seems like any situation in which someone calls out the hero for whatever reasons would qualify as an example from seeing the trope name alone, and personally, I think that's the crux of the problem.
Or alternatively, is there or should there be a separate trope that specifically addresses such example directly? Like someone calling out a hero for their mistakes for whatever reasons such as reckless behaviors or unintentional actions. And there could be a subtrope would be a trope which has the original definition that the action being called out is truly morally ambiguous or straight-up evil. I think this could lessen new tropers being misled by the trope name and adding the wrong examples.
I'm sorry in advance if my post came off as too direct or confusing. English is not my first language but I'll try my best following the rules here. Again, thank you in advance if anyone can clarify this up for me. It's just that I really wanted to discuss the specific definition of this trope.
Hi. This is my first time making a thread here so I'm sorry in advance if I do anything wrong. I just wanted to find the answer to the question I've been asking but there's no reply in the thread "Is this an example?" when I put it there, so I decided to make a new thread about it. Here's what I wrote over there:
I would like to ask for advice regarding what qualifies as an example of What the Hell, Hero?. Recently, I added an example on Film/SHAZAM!(2019) page regarding one character calling out the hero for causing property damage and almost a loss of life because of his reckless display of power, but others deleted it and said it does not qualify as an example because as the definition on this page provided, an example needs to be "exclusively about scenes where the hero is called on his morally ambiguous or directly evil actions by characters in the story." The tropers who deleted it feel that the example I added failed the 'morally ambiguous' part.
My gripe is this: what qualifies as an example of this trope is unclear when going by the trope name at first glance. I mean, when you see a trope named "What the Hell, Hero?", you would expect an example given in a story in which someone calling out a hero for any action that caused harm would qualify, morally ambiguous or not, right? In this story, the hero's actions directly caused harm to others and his friend rightfully calling him out on it, even if it was not his intention. His mistake could've caused serious injury or death if he didn't manage to reverse the situation. Also, why is the definition of the trope only limited to actions that are morally ambiguous or outright evil only in the first place, when any action committed by a hero could be called out by their friends if they find such action unheroic?
So, to sum up, I personally think there should be a more clear definition regarding the trope, or at least a trope name repair, to address the misinterpretation of the trope, because like I mentioned above, the trope name itself doesn't really provide a clear definition. At the moment, it seems like any situation in which someone calls out the hero for whatever reasons would qualify as an example from seeing the trope name alone, and personally, I think that's the crux of the problem.
Or alternatively, is there or should there be a separate trope that specifically addresses such example directly? Like someone calling out a hero for their mistakes for whatever reasons such as reckless behaviors or unintentional actions. And there could be a subtrope would be a trope which has the original definition that the action being called out is truly morally ambiguous or straight-up evil. I think this could lessen new tropers being misled by the trope name and adding the wrong examples.
I'm sorry in advance if my post came off as too direct or confusing. English is not my first language but I'll try my best following the rules here. Again, thank you in advance if anyone can clarify this up for me. It's just that I really wanted to discuss the specific definition of this trope.