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Nymue Lord High Exquisitor Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Lord High Exquisitor
#1: Nov 17th 2018 at 10:39:21 PM

Disclaimer, because this is obviously contentious: although some people surely disagree with me with as much conviction as I disagree with them, note that everything I say here is offered in good faith, and not intended to provoke, and that for the sake of polite discourse, I won't attack anyone for their convictions, construct a strawman of their perceived position, suspect them of hiding sinister motives/beliefs, or presume anyone's moral/intellectual deficiency based on their sincere convictions, even and especially if I don't fully understand their reasoning. Without advocating moral relativism, I believe in offering any fellow human being the benefit of the doubt, and I'd appreciate responses being offered in the same spirit of courtesy.

...

So, I haven't been around here for a while. Back when I was, I was an actual card-carrying revolutionary Marxist whose favourite political issues were legalising gay marriage and letting in more refugees.

But since I started fundamentally questioning the moral, empirical and logical basis of my stances, as well as all the alternatives I could find, I've gradually realised that I can't find any such robust justification for any distinctly 'leftwing' policies: e.g. illegal immigrant amnesty, needs-based wealth redistribution via taxation, affirmative action quotas.

But I still passionately believe in the social causes those policies are intended to address. Basically my core values are the same (we should judge people fairly as individuals, try to create the best conditions for everyone to thrive, including/especially those who currently aren't, and allow people to live freely according to their wishes so long as they are not harming others) but I've come to some different conclusions about how these are realised, which in some cases are almost opposite.

I've spent time reading, listening to and discussing a lot of different perspectives. It's surprised me that the people I've met who are even sympathetic to some formulations of fascism, all share these basic values. None of them are drawn to political violence or subordinating people they disagree with, although I can name several 'anti-fascist' activists I've personally met who'd revel in violence they consider justified, to take out their palpable fear and anger, if they could get away with it, as some will straight-up tell you. Of course there are reasonable people all over the spectrum, but what's struck me about trying to actually meet and understand people from the 'extremes', is the striking difference in the life experience, lifestyle and temperament of these different kinds of people, taken generally, and which side actually has more 'extreme' people on it. It's only anecdotal, and I am not trying to suggest by these extremes anything about the average leftwinger, but I just honestly wouldn't have expected what I came to find when I investigated for myself. It was interesting, to say the least.

Which just makes it weird to me that all of my own growing convictions about the best ways for people to govern themselves and thrive, are now conflated with violent extremism and even genocide in everyday discourse. Whereas nobody blinked at my old convictions, which fundamentally entailed violent revolution.

I can go more into any of my personal convictions, if you'd like to probe them factually, theoretically, or ethically; I like to discover when I'm wrong about something, having changed my mind about a lot of things, and I think the world would be a better place if everyone more fully understood their perceived opposition, in general.

In short, I'm a nationalist, a traditionalist and a voluntarist. I also believe the best results come from defining human rights as both a short list of natural 'negative rights' and nation-specific citizen rights; defining specific provisions (e.g. healthcare) as 'human rights' is understandable as a goodwill impulse, but seems to be destructive as a policy.

Anyway, I don't want to go on at length about what these positions mean to me or why I became convinced of them, until/unless asked.

Otherwise, I'm just curious if anyone else here has also found themselves disenchanted with leftwing political theory and policy. Again, I've talked to a lot of people (at least a small majority) in the broader 'dissident right' who formerly identified with the leftwing, but for all the leftwingers I've spoken to, from left-leaning centrists to radical Marxists, almost all of them have never really been anything else.

I'm always curious to hear people's stories, especially if they can pose a challenge to the way I already think about things.

Better to light one small candle than to curse the darkness.
Fighteer MOD Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#2: Nov 21st 2018 at 8:54:28 AM

This could be an interesting topic. I'm not sure that the forums can handle it maturely, though. It's always blown up in the past. I'm going to have to decline it, unfortunately.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
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