Avengers Endgame spoiler thread

Saw the movie last night with my sisters. One of therm graduates earlier that day so it was a great afterparty.

Amazing movie. Way better than the already good Infinity War. Like wow.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

I don't see mr "I have no right to do anything less than them" being happy dancing and drawing while people around him suffer. That is just not who Steve is.

On a different note: Of the planned Disney Plus shows - the Loki show, Wanda and Vision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier...only of them sound like they can be set after Endgame. I wonder if their purpose will be to fill the gaps before Infinity war (frankly, when did Falcon and Bucky move from feuding over Steve to actually liking each other?), or if they go alternate, or if there is actually a plan to bring Loki and Vision back. I mean, Sure DOES have his specs, doesn't she? And Loki did have this truly cryptic line before Thanos killed him.

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 28th 2019 at 9:49:41 AM

But that's not how time travel works at all according this very movie! None of the other changes to the past changed the present, so why would Cap's trip to the past change the MCU's timeline to how it currently looks?

Except they explicitly say that time travel doesn't work like it does in Doctor Who. In Doctor Who, you can change time — but according to Endgame and the Ancient One, you can't, you can only create split timelines (or else the MCU would suddenly have looked completely different with a still alive Thanos with the Tesseract and no Snap, because 2014 Thanos died before being able to assemble the Infinity Stones).

The only reason that the Doctor doesn't change River Song's timeline is because he promised her he wouldn't. "Not one line." (Also, he would be changing his own timeline then, which is a big no no and could cause massive ramifications.)

Edited by alliterator on Apr 28th 2019 at 9:54:33 AM

I think you missed what I said. Cap didn't change anything when he went back.

Old Steve is from Timeline A. He travels back to be with Peggy, which creates Timeline B. Timeline B is everything we see in the MCU and Old Steve has been here the whole time. The Cap we've been following travels back in time and creates Timeline C, which is seen as the last scene of the movie.

No timelines were changed, new branches were created. The MCU we see is one of those branches.

Edited by LordVatek on Apr 28th 2019 at 12:58:30 PM

This song needs more love.

But if the MCU is Timeline B, then how did Cap from Timeline C get there? Or are you saying that that's Cap from Timeline A? Are Caps just creating alternate realities all the time now? Like, Cap A goes back in time, creates an alternate reality, lives his life until the present when Cap B goes back in time and creates another alternate reality and lives his life until the present when Cap C goes back in time and creates another alternate reality and lives his life until the present when Cap D goes back in time and...ad nauseam forever?

Also, this posits that Cap would never try to change anything else, like stopping Hydra from infiltrating SHIELD, saving Bucky from being brainwashed, and so on.

Also, according to Reddit, this is Endgame Thor and Rocket◊.

Cap A is Old Steve.

Cap B is the one we've been following through the movies. He's the one dancing with Peggy in the final scene.

Cap C is in the ice. We don't see him.

I guess yeah, the idea is that Steve will always go back in time to be with Peggy in all timelines. Him not saving Bucky or doing anything else is just the choice he makes when he chooses to retire.

Edited by LordVatek on Apr 28th 2019 at 1:10:41 PM

This song needs more love.

I want to know the story behind Rocket knowing what a build-a-bear is.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.

“In Doctor Who, you can change time”

Ehhhhhh it varies by episode by writer by era by how Victorious the Doctor is feeling

it’s been five years and that’s a lot of time to pick up on pop culture

Alternatively he’s just tired of correcting people when he doesn’t know what they’re calling him

Edited by Bocaj on Apr 28th 2019 at 1:12:10 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

This debate right here is what I mean by they didn't explain their rules properly. And rules that are badly or not even explained to the audience might as well not exist. People are clearly on different understandings of what even happened.

I'd also point out that, for all the winging I got and everyone saying "Only the Infinity Stones matter when it comes to the paradoxes", they still return Thor's hammer back to where they took it suggesting that it's absence is important enough to merit it's return to the moment it left, but Nebula and other things just aren't.

Again, exceptions to rules are fine, but they need to be adequately explained to the audience.

Also on the note of these paradoxes, even if the Infinity stones are all that matter when it comes down to paradoxes, the characters still treat several matters as though other usual time travel rules apply. Steve puts on his Avengers-era suit, Banner rips off his shirt and feigns his old personality for a joke, and Thor outright tries to pretend he is his past-self to his mother before she tells him to cut it out and she already knows otherwise.

Even if different rules are in-place, it's not wrong to feel like the characters are treating the situation differently and as the audience would expect of a 'No Paradoxes' timeline.

Edited by InkDagger on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:15:50 AM

What's a built a bear?

They did explain the rules. They just kind of broke their rules when they put Cap in the bench. They could have easily solved this by having Cap appear in a flash or something like that, to show that he travelled there from somewhere else. Up to this point what they did made perfect sense. The only kind of question I have is if there are now multiple timelines which are nearly identical or if the branch kind of knits itself together if a change doesn't have much of a ripple effect (ie there is one reality in which Thors mother talked to future Thor and one in which she didn't, but because the aether and the Hammer were brought back those two realities became one again once they align with each other perfectly again).

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:20:40 AM

Customizable teddy bears

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Eh, the only thing you can't change are "fixed" moments in time, because they would, again, cause massive ripples in the timeline. Otherwise, just changing time is fine, because the timeline itself corrects it.

These I understand better, because hey, Cap wants to trick Hydra into giving him the Spear, so why wouldn't he look like past Cap? Just like he and Tony change clothes to infiltrate the SHIELD base. And Thor doesn't change his clothing at all, because he and Rocket weren't supposed to interact with anyone except Jane.

There are no paradoxes...until the last moment of the film.

Edited by alliterator on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:19:23 AM

Build-A-Bear.

Fun Fact: There is a real Rocket Build-a-Bear.◊

This song needs more love.

That’s where it usually settles but it’s not consistent throughout the show’s decades of continuity

During the First Doctor episode the Aztecs, time can’t be changed at all

And fixed points are very often incredibly arbitrary, something becoming a fixed point because the Doctor read it in a book

Edited by Bocaj on Apr 28th 2019 at 1:21:23 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Doctor Who has over 60 years of time travel stories. Not all of them are compatible. I'm going with the modern Who rules.

It’s why I said it varies by era

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

This is kind of random but the way time travel is depicted in Back to the Future sucks and makes zero sense. Marty should vanish the second he kept his parents from meeting.

Now you know how Bruce feels when everybody referenced.

Also proof that obsessing with time travel rules is just giving you unnecessary headaches.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:23:54 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

No, saying that there's one rule and then violating that one rule in the end is what makes people confused.

If you just set up the rules of time travel and stick with them, it would have been fine.

Edited by alliterator on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:29:18 AM

Back to the Future was WAY more consistent.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:30:10 AM

Yes, yes it was.

Okay, Reddit has an actual timeline. Maybe that will make sense.

Exactly. I didn't have a headache at all, I really enjoyed what they did. And then they ignored their own rules in the end, confusing everyone.

If anything I am curious about exploring the reality in which Loki escaped and the reality in which the Got G never formed. (I wonder if Peter or Korath got the power stone….)

that isn't helpful at all. I don't even get what this is supposed to be.

Edited by Swanpride on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:34:29 AM

I made a much simpler but less comprehensive one out of boredom earlier today, covering only the ones I remembered off the top of my head

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Apr 28th 2019 at 10:44:32 AM

I don't think the 1970s minor security scare would have resulted in a split timeline. It looks like everything was fine there.