Goblin Slayer (anime! light novel!)

Well, that....depends. I mean, in Punisher MAX at least, Frank Castle is not intended to be someone you idolize and this is made absurdly clear from the get go. The series has its issues, but Frank is constantly shown as damaged, broken, and a black-souled murderer who only lives for his mission.

Goblin Slayer's whole thing would be more mitigating if the series didn't seem to have such massive problems with women, too. Goblin Slayer is one that's worse than usual as a power fantasy, and it's...well...topical. Like I think we all got our opinions on, say, Kirito from Sword Art out four years ago

Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 16th 2018 at 6:47:25 AM

On side note, one reason why over the top tragic backstories appeal to Power Fantasy fans is that in the fantasy it gives excuse for being really brutal and violent, especially if its in name of revenge and stuff. Goblins being pretty much 100% evil helps in that since its not really possible to feel sympathy for them.

You could argue I guess on about whether Goblin Slayer is intended as power fantasy or not, but it can still count even with GS being really messed up emotionally

Edited by SpookyMask on Oct 16th 2018 at 4:50:41 PM

Well, it's pretty typical there and it reduces other character to props in the revenge drama. Like, back to Lodoss...Parn doesn't have a tragic backstory at all. His father died when he was young, but not in a "you killed my father" sort of way. He's idealistic and wants adventure and has to grow up on the journey. Even Guts, whose journey is all about revenge? The people who die and get victimized are people in their own right, and we've spent six volumes developing them

Whereas Goblin Slayer is "doomed hometown, here's a quick scene of it"...they exist only to be raped and murdered by vicious little gremlins

That would be catharsis, but it is not really power fantasy.

One of the point of Power Fantasy is for catharsis.

The "goblins kill men and abduct women" thing also plays into the that actually, since it means by extension that Goblin Slayer can only save the women(since there hasn't been situation where they engage party already engaging goblins iirc). That said, there are more male characters in Goblin Slayer that I can remember than in most fantasy harem or isekai shows I can think of.

Like, even though this story does clearly have female characters fawning over him, it still doesn't really feel like harem story to me. Most harem stories barely have any male characters besides main character that are in any way notable besides as Antagonists.

It is certainly not a Power Fantasy the way a lot of isekai stories with OP cheat protagonists who attract nearly every female character are.

Yes, but a Power Fantasy nonetheless. What is fantasized about is just different.

Does Goblin Slayer have many significant male characters besides GS?

Dwarf Shaman and Lizard Preist are a part of his party.

Both Spearman and Heavy Swordsman have their own arcs, too.

It helps that unlike the power fantasies in Isekai, here Goblin Slayer was never a "loser", so to speak. He wasn't some random otaku or shut-in, he was just a normal village boy before shit went horribly wrong for him.

Another thing that helps is how none of the villains feel overly cartoonish in their evil. Goblins are quite vile, but their depiction as more of a race of parasites and beasts make it come off more natural, compared to say, the Elf prince from, How to Not Summon a Demon Lord, who wanted to rape and marry his own sister, just out of pure.

That's more offputting to me, just from how bad the writing is. A race of rapists monsters doesn't seem that unnatural to me, they're just animals following their basic instincts, but some guy wanting to rape his own sister just because is really forced to me. Feels like it does nothing but help the loser otaku protag come off better. The goblins at least help set a tone and work as worldbuilding to some degree,

Course, that show is a comedy, so maybe this is a bad comparison.

@M84: Well yeah, it isn't written as power fantasy. All I meant to say that it is completely legit to see it as one. Like, as far as I can tell, there are like several tiers of power fantasy:

1) the tier where readers relate to main character. Usually has actual story. The most shonen and "loser manages to pull his life together" stories fit here.

2) the tier where main character doesn't matter, readers are just in for cute girls/fan service shenanigans/cool stuff happening, story itself is forgettable because fans are for the individual characters or scenes instead. Most of slice of life stuff and pop corn action scenes fits here.

3) the tier where readers want to be main character. Story is about how cool/powerful/successful/etc main character is.

With GS, it doesn't feel like its written as Power Fantasy because it feels more like character study rather than main character being written as relatable or someone you want to be. That said, it definitely has enough stuff for it that someone could think it as power fantasy.

But yeah, most major male characters of GS is half of his party members. Though the Guts expy swordman guy is memorable enough yeah. I remember spearman existing, but I honestly can't ever remember what he did.

Edited by SpookyMask on Oct 16th 2018 at 5:13:49 PM

I...do not really agree that the villains aren't overly cartoonish. The goblins are intentionally written as vile as possible. And the goblins aren't just animals, that's made abundantly clear.

I mean, at some point, a writer had to sit down and go "I'm gonna write them as a race of violent rape demons. To a one."

Yeah, I don't get that, aren't ALL Goblin Slayer monster villains literally evil because they are evil monsters? I mean, there are actually other bad guys than goblins and from what little we see, all of them are horrible sadists.

Anyhoo, I continue listing stuff why this doesn't feel like power fantasy completely: There is also that GS' face is never actually revealed, so the helmet feels as his "face". That and lot of other details really dehumanize Goblin Slayer(plus as said, his backstory is "normal farm boy" so he doesn't get Power Fantasy bonus points for being notably a loser before badass).

In general, power fantasy protagonists are never monster like in appearance :P Even if they are dragons or slimes, they transform into human form, whenever isekai story has monster character remain monster, its usually because its a comedy where main character is butt of the joke

I mean, I don't quite agree. Goblin Slayer's armor seems to help make him more intimidating and thus, more awesome, but he's beautiful beneath it. It's cake and eating it, too.

Also, we see little of other monsters here. Just...Ogre from what I've read so far and he's barely there to get a read on him or his species...also doesn't seem other races have an emphasis on being violent rapists like the gobbies

His backstory is "normal farm boy" as much as the loser otakus were "normal japanese kid". Its a starting point. The fact that he was normal makes him less distinctive and more self-insertable.

Well yeah, other monsters are just evil sadists without the R part.

Does it matter though if we never see what he looks like? Even then I don't remember him being described as good looking, iirc reaction was more like "Huh. that is... Normal. I was expecting him to look ugly" but it was long time ago I read the manga.

Anyway, seriously though, I say it is important distinction that we never actually see his face because you will always as reader think of his helmet first when you think about what he looks like. Its kinda the same reason why main characters never feal mask that conceal emotions in any work, it makes it harder to relate to character if they aren't expressive.

Didn't Orge say he planned on making Cleric his plaything before switching to just wanting to brutalize her? Pretty sure he's in the same camp as the goblin.

I mean, even the nature of GS's trauma is kind of awkward. He's broken from doing a good thing (exterminating subhumans) that nobody else wants to do, and the solution is to get more people to help him exterminate subhumans before they rapemurder a bunch of helpless citizens. There's no sympathy extended to his victims at any point in this - genociding (somewhat) intelligent nonhumans down to the last child is only bad because the division of labour is inefficient and traumatic.

The source of his trauma is witnessing the rape and murder of his sister right in front of him while he was helpless to save her. Followed by spending years training under an abusive mentor.

His years of Goblin slaying didn't break him because he was already broken.

The training program is really more for the sake of Rookies who take Goblin quests so they don't end up like the Greenhorn party in the first chapter.

Edited by M84 on Oct 16th 2018 at 10:35:53 PM

Oh, we do see what he looks like. We just ever see his face in full....but we see enough to note he's a very good looking dude. That's were the power fantasy enters into it, because GS is wearing unbelievably cool armor. He just looks awesome. It conveniently also saves the writer/artist from having to describe or draw facial expressions to convey it. GS is the faceless avenger. He could be anyone.

Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 16th 2018 at 7:42:41 AM

It seems like some people here are considering this a Power Fantasy in a way that would encompass pretty much all fiction with a badass protagonist whom the audience might want to project themselves onto.

At any rate, it's nowhere near as blatant about this as say, an isekai story where the protagonist is a loser who falls into a fantasy world, becomes uber powerful, and gains a harem and maybe even a kingdom.

Edited by M84 on Oct 16th 2018 at 10:45:41 PM

It's still pretty blatant. The streak of really bad misogyny running through GS makes it a bit worse, too.

Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 16th 2018 at 7:46:11 AM

@M84: and Re Zero basically mocks the latter and all it’s tropes, which is why I love it so much.

@Lightsnake: I really am starting to wonder why you even bothered with this series if it pisses you off so much. It’s obvious that the fact that there are elements of Power Fantasy bothers you. Why keep going for something you hate?

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Oct 16th 2018 at 10:48:13 AM

Re: Zero is quite the deconstruction of the isekai genre.