Diversity and Representation in Media

Neonazis are also ridiculous, of course. They are also dangerous. These are not mutually exclusive.

Also some neo nazis or "white realist" care very much you call them evil because they really belive their shit isnt awfull.

That was one good thing about Winter Solder, it understood that there isn't much difference between home-grown American white supremacists and Nazis, except for the branding.

Something a lot of American media forgets or deliberately underplays (understandably, if still wrongly) is that Nazis didn't make up their ideology out of whole cloth, and they were in many ways inspired by the United States government.

That's why the main villains of both The Boys season 2 and season 3 (aside from the show's overall antagonist) are both white supremacists, it's just one is from 1930s Nazi Germany and one is from 1930s USA.

Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere put it best:

Mr. Croup: But you must never imagine, that just because something is funny, Monsieur le Marquis, it is not dangerous.

To hammer the point home, Croup has just crucified the guy he is addressing.

It is kind of fitting that the MCU portrayed Hydra as being exterminated as of Avengers 2. But now with the white supremacist movement making a comeback IRL as well now Sam - a black man, being Captain America I wonder if they will brought Hydra back as the villain for his movies

You can definitely do "ridiculous and dangerous" at the same time, and those are some of my favorite characters. Xykon in The Order of the Stick is a silly skeleton man who just wants to have fun and will absolutely murder anyone who is even slightly inconvenient to him. Sometimes this is played for laughs, but every once in a while the comic reminds us how horrifying this would be to actually deal with. On the recent One Piece (2023), Buggy is a torturer, a slaver, and a dangerous combatant with hints of a sympathetic backstory... who dresses like a clown and yells "CHOP CHOP CANNON" at the top of his lungs when he attacks.

Neither of these characters are Nazis, but I think the comparison stands.

And I already mentioned Neverwhere, which featured a pair of supernatural hitmen who make silly and stupid smalltalk while they gruesomely torture and murder people.

There's also this factor: Nazis love claiming media that depict them as badass or dangerous (no matter the actual intention of the creators), but they hate to be seen as stupid and dumb. There's a reason that no Nazis have ever tried to claim The Producers, because it makes them look like a bunch of dumbasses.

Edited by Nightwire on Sep 21st 2023 at 9:31:29 AM

Jojo Rabbit is also a good example of what you are talking about.

All the Nazis are portrayed as losers and an imaginary version of Hitler is played as comic relief albeit still dangerous but still defeated.

I think that’s the best way to balance dangerous and silly.

It helps that The Producers is not really about Nazis. The Show Within a Show is. The only actual Nazi in that movie is the guy who wrote said show.

@ Red. Yeah, I think the movie portraying them as dangerous idiots and the kid overcoming his brainwashing to be great

Alt right can’t co opt a kid tossing Hitler down.

Speaking of Nazis, my mom and I were recently listening to some songs from The Producers, and we had a conversation about how Inglourious Basterds could be an amazing dark stage musical.

I'd love to see that.

I used to forward the argument that they should make as many gay black women in the Galactic Empire as possible like Rae Sloane because that would "spoil" the First Order and Empire for them.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 22nd 2023 at 1:22:26 AM

I guess this is related to representation, but I honestly don't like this sentiment.

There was this post I read about how artists must learn to draw other races. I get the sentiment, but forcing artists to draw what they don't like is a terrible approach, especially with the mantra of "artists draw what they like". Though I guess the poster was commented on being naive and young for expressing that thought.

Edited by Ookamikun on Sep 27th 2023 at 9:22:09 PM

I'd get it more if the sentiment was "draw other races respectfully" (read: not like how they were depicted in cartoons from the '30s and '40s). But yeah, that "advice" is rather flimsy.

Yeah depicting other races properly I stand behind. Telling people that they must do other people as some form of obligation is a big no-no. It's like a full on furry artist being told to draw humans.

Edited by Ookamikun on Sep 27th 2023 at 9:29:34 PM

Were you there when we discussed the depictions of literally black skinned people?

Yeah I brought up the drow.

Nobody’s forcing artists to draw anything they don’t want. But if one is asking for commissions, and among their restrictions like “no mecha, no nsfw”, they include “no black people” one really ought to think over why they aren’t making the effort to learn.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 27th 2023 at 9:20:47 AM

I mean it's not really in their onus. You could pry the artist about it but at the end of the day you can just commission other people.

It should be a basic skill in drawing people: how to draw with different face and body shapes, along with coloring regarding different skin tones. I believe this is taught in art school.

And if an artist said 'commission me but no black people', they are super racist.

Yeah, if one of the first things I found out about an artist was "no black people", I'm not gonna want them to draw anything for me. Even if I didn't originally want them to draw any black people.

Edited by M84 on Sep 28th 2023 at 4:49:36 PM

The tweet came from a fairly uninformed minor from what I recall, hence the hyperbolic wording, but while I don't think every single artist should be forced to regularly draw things they aren't interested in, but ones who want to be successful should at least be expected to research and study a broad range of forms if they want to be considered a respectable artist.