Disney/Pixar In General

The film was a take on the trope of the frog prince who has to be kissed to become human again. It was pretty obvious somebody was going to turn into a frog. Even if it was both the prince and the love interest...

You give these people something and they just aren't happy.

"Sees people dissapointed with The Princess And The Frog and feels massively sad"

Oh well, Different Strokes for Different Folks.

edited 14th Jan '16 8:13:55 AM by AegisP

I think the racism issue was handled well. It was not outright addressed because, let's face it, a historical take on anything doesn't belong into a Disney movie. Pocahontas showed that. The historical aspect just clashes with the fairy tale aspect, and honestly, that's not the right place about an in-depth discussion for race-relation. But for those who are "in the know", there are some nice touches, like Tiana and her mother sitting automatically in the back of the tram.

An even better solution would have been to set it in a fictional country in the first place, though.

I personally always felt Princess and the Frog was a case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

edited 14th Jan '16 10:00:59 AM by SkeletalPumpkin

So you dislike The Princess and the Frog, and love Frozen, though they have similar (if not the same) flaws and issues in their storytelling.

They did not need to spend 20 minutes on what Tiana is doing wrong. She consisteny rejects her friends, literally gets no sleep between her shifts (a HUGE concern), and does not know how to prioritize all aspects of her life.

edited 14th Jan '16 9:05:45 AM by Anii654

Frozen generally handles things better than Princess and the Frog, though. It's easier to see WHY Anna needs a boyfriend, as she's shown to be lonely for over a decade, and unlike Tiana she actually expresses interest in dating, so it doesn't feel like other characters are trying to pressure her into doing it. And the annoying trolls are only in one scene, as opposed to the firefly and alligator being present throughout several scenes.

Also I just think Frozen's jokes land better. Olaf is hilarious, and he's also generally quieter, calmer, and less obnoxious than Pat F's comic relief. And Frozen's humor has less slapstick and more wit.

I also liked Frozen's songs better. And I don't think "But you like another similar work!" Is a great counter-argument in the first place.

edited 14th Jan '16 9:16:18 AM by spashthebandragon

Frozen has the better soundtrack. That more or less is it. As a general rule, the audience is ready to forgive a lot when the songs land, and the ones in Pot F, well, it is one of the weaker soundtracks by a long shot (though Frozen has the worst song with Fixer upper). Even though those are both examples how NOT to use songs in a movie, at least the songs in Frozen are catchy.

Otherwise, the movies have both the same problems. I think that Tiana is more interesting than Anna, though, who has the personality of a Barbie doll. Tiana will certainly get an article in my blog one day (will be a couple of years, though, because next December, I'll finally cover Cinderella and the year after most likely Belle...but in three years, she has a shot). Anna or Elsa will most likely never get one, unless I run out of characters to write about.

Actually, I like Tiana as a character. She's just trapped in a mediocre movie. Whereas Anna is a mediocre character trapped in a great movie.

My issue with Anna is that Disney is WAY overdoing the "perky, bubbly, clumsy awkward girl" archetype lately. I hope Frozen 2 puts the spotlight on Elsa, and I really hope Moana isn't too similar to Rapunzel and Anna.

edited 14th Jan '16 9:48:30 AM by spashthebandragon

The one thing Princess and The Frog had over Frozen was the kickass villain song.

Why didn't Frozen get a true villain song

You know, given that Frozen has "Inspired by Hans Christian Andersen's The Snow Queen" in the credits despite bearing little-or-no resemblance to it... Why did Disney do that but didn't retroactively add "Inspired by Osamu Tezuka's Jungle Emperor" to The Lion King? It's about the same level of similarity...

Because the people from both fandoms would whine about it.

To be fair, the idea to set it in 1920's New Orleans wasn't Disney's. They loosely based it on a more recent novel that itself was a deconstruction of the fairy tale.

I liked the New Orleans setting, and I certainly found it a much more interesting choice of location than either Tangled or Frozen. I'm still impressed by how good a sense of location the movie was able to get out of it. The place had an atmosphere and a sense of scale that I never got out of Corona or Arendelle.

Probably because it's a version of an actual location, instead of a far away kingdom that isn't based on any one place.

Not really. It claims to be based on The Frog Princess books by E.D. Baker, but that one is set in a classical medieval kingdom and all it has in common with the Disney film is the twist of "gal kisses the frog prince but turns into a frog as well". It doesn't even happen for the same reason in the film. So the 1920s idea was very much Disney's.

edited 14th Jan '16 10:28:47 AM by Tuckerscreator

Why did Disney do that but didn't retroactively add "Inspired by Osamu Tezuka's Jungle Emperor" to The Lion King?

Because then they'd have to pay the Tezuka estate.

My main problems with the Princess and the Frog are:

Naveen just doesn't work as a character, mainly because the movie wants to paint him as a sleazeball but doesn't try hard enough, so his development falls short. Kuzco and the Beast have great character arcs because at the start you can see how truly unlikable and selfish they are, and their growth has actual payoff. But Naveen is just a somewhat scummy greedy lazy guy who transitions into nice guy with no major turning point. The movie doesn't even have the balls to have him actually dealing with Facilier and having it to be his fault, he basically just shakes the guy's hand without even realizing he's supposed to be making a deal. As it is, he isn't compeling as either a redeemed jerk or a rogue with a heart of gold like Aladdin or Flynn.

Facilier, great a villain as he is, just doesn't have a working connection to Tiana herself, so their final confrontation just doesn't have that much of an impact. They just happen to be obstacles in each other's way, but there's no personal link. Facilier didn't ever even intend to damage Tiana at all to begin with, and they haven't even met in the flesh before this. Hence, as heroine and villain, they just don't click with each other.

It's still a good movie with a few glaring flaws, and in that sense it makes the perfect bookend to Disney's major 2-D enterprises opposite Snow White (Winnie the Pooh 2011 was more of a short epilogue). Oddly, if anything, both Snow White and Princess and Frog fall short in exactly the opposite ways, in a sense (one doesn't actually try to leave a message, the other leaves a message that mostly comes off kind of garbled).

edited 14th Jan '16 11:38:49 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

i thought princess and the frog was ok, not one of disney's stronger movies but enjoyable for what it was.

as for frozen, it was alright the first time i watched it. in retrospect i don't care much for it, though i'd have to rewatch it again to have a 100% solid opinion on the movies' pros and cons (the few things i do remember are the intrusive trolls, hans being shoehorned as a villain, let it go being a mediocre pop ballad, etc.) the massive overhype and marketing campaign didn't exactly do it any favors, either.

i enjoy the two movies that preceded it, and the one that came after it far more.

edited 14th Jan '16 12:23:51 PM by wehrmacht

Yeah, pretty much. Neither Tiana nor Naveen have really a connection to Facilier, they just stumble into his path and Naveen, well, I guess I couldn't have somewhat accepted that he is somehow better at the end of the movie if they had given him a meaningful gesture to proof it. Aladdin is a dirty liar, but at least his last act in the movie is to give up all pretence and set Genie free instead. Flynn gets away with being a lovable rogue because for one, the Flynn persona is mostly a mask for the much more sensitive Eugene, and two, not only does he eventually everything that Rapunzel's dream turns into a perfect moment, he literally dies for her freedom. How can you not like a guy like this?

But Naveen? First his plan is to kiss Charlotte in order to become human again. Than his plan is to kiss Charlotte, but he really doesn't like doing it?????? Not to mention that the fact that he basically wants to use Charlotte and has no regard for what she might feel when she realizes that her little girl dreams are only that and she is trapped in a loveless marriage shows that he has learned or understand nothing.

Frozen isn't much better though. None of the actions of the characters make any sense, especially not Hans.

Do you mean Winnie the Pooh or Tangled? Because Winnie the Pooh was the movie which preceded it, but pretty much like Rescuers down under it tends to be forgotten. Well, actually, neither preceded it, but I assume that you confused the release date of Wreck-it Ralph, since the only movie after Frozen has been Big Hero 6 so far....

edited 14th Jan '16 12:14:24 PM by Swanpride

i meant tangled, but i feel like i'm one of the few people who thought winnie the pooh was really enjoyable.

Hey, Let it Go is awesome!

it was ok the first time i heard it, now i just get instinctively annoyed every time it comes on anywhere.

Yeah, Big Hero 6 and Wreck it Ralph were the two other films i was talking about, i got the release dates mixed up for some reason.

edited 14th Jan '16 12:17:46 PM by wehrmacht

I guess because I haven't seen Frozen as much (or listened to modern crap radio) I wasn't as annoyed.

Plus, the singing is at least really great.

i've only seen the film once, but the heavy marketing push made it hard to forget it.

Those kind of things never register in my head. I'm usually playing on a computer with adblock installed anyways.

So just because someone NEEDS to have a boyfriend, or to know WHY they need a boyfriend does not mean that anything. Many people fall in love when they are not looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend. I does not mean she is any more deserving. Anna's relationship with Kristoff and Tiana's relationship with Naveen are both problematic. It's obvious Frozen's soundtrack is the better one.

I don't think the issue is that he did not go full-out asshole like Beast or Kuzco, but I do agree that there is no defining moment for his development to grow in a genuine way. Him mincing was not enough.

Facilier is definitely the biggest flaw in the movie in my opinion. His motivation revolves around Naveen, and Naveen carries the story more than Tiana does. It is like Hunchback, where the story that is being told has the wrong protagonist.