Pretty Cure general thread

It's a magical girl space opera with a god-baby opening wormholes on a whim and the super-heroines fighting an evil kappa. I don't think they ever pretended to care about accurate science.

8. Getting back into space really injected the energy this show needed. Hikaru geeking out is more or less the best part of her right now. And she puts in the effort to learn and adapt to alien cultures. Meanwhile Elena just imposes human values when they're the guests. Poor showing. Though at least she handles aliens better overall. Prunce meanwhile is a dick. Just wants to steal the alien treasure and go. Really don't see what separates the Precure and Kappard without an explanation. But hey, turns out explaining galactic peace helps a lot. Libra princess also got a nice gag. Hopefully they do something with the princesses. I'm satisfied with this being an appetizer for space adventures.

Lala's transformation is so much more elaborate and animated than the others it almost feels unfair that they keep showing them next to each other.

Kappard's blasting off agaaaaaaain!

They really need to step up their game with Tengou. She's just really bland so far. It's nice seeing Kappard again though.

That being said I'm not a fan of how they compared the heroines being the same as the villians for "taking the pen". One of them clearly wants to use it for good and even asked nicely compared to the other group that just barged in. And then they make a replacement super easy. Like it kind of kills the point.

Overall decent start for hopefully more development for Elena.

There was a reasonable idea in there; it had kind of become a cultural artifact, and it was rude to just take it. This was kind of broken by how the original was easily replaced though.

Yeah, if anything they should've kept the ending a bit more ambiguous. Having it be replaced easily was wayyyy too convenient. Even in other seasons, conflicts weren't solved THAT quickly. I get this is aimed towards kids and all that, but still.

Edited by Ducolamia on Mar 27th 2019 at 1:37:56 PM

9. Looks like Madoka is going to consistently get the most well-written episodes. Helps to start from a good base. Apparently rich Japanese kids don't need to sleep. How do they make time for a million activities anyway? Of course that'll lead to stress even without one being a space-faring superhero lying to her father. Not sure I like how Hikaru just dragged her away like that, but whatever works. Sakurako has a super-blatant crush on Madoka. Elena is pairing up nicely with Madoka. Eyewon sucks so far, but there was a nice fight this time. Hikaru hopping around like that is great. Good episode, though like her intro ep there was something missing stopping it from being great. Not sure what, but the show has been lacking something even when generally solid.

To me the problem I've been consistently seeing with Star Twinkle is that it has interesting concepts,but it feels like they aren't using them to their full advantage. Compared to other seasons, I feel this Madoka episode was lacking because they just repeated the beginning of her arc TWICE. It was good mind you but we already know it is. We already saw Madoka was Elena's classmate and how she's stressed at home. And then here we get ANOTHER scene establishing...what we already saw...with her dad...AGAIN.

I'm not trying to say that they can't do anything from this, but it's just kind of mediocre. I remember how in Fresh, the stress of being a Precure was just a bigger deal. Because in that arc, everyone was affected by it and the girls ended up passing out from exhaustion. Plus, the girls had to seriously consider how their dancing was affecting their lives.

I kind of wish we saw more of Elena and Madoka's relationship instead of what they tried to push in this episode.

Edited by Ducolamia on Mar 31st 2019 at 7:08:05 AM

I would not say they repeated the beginning of her arc, while yes, both episodes show that she feels pressured by her father in many ways, the theme of each episode is different i'd say, in her first episode the focus was on her choosing to do what she wanted over what her father would have wanted, while in this episode it focuses more on how she can trust other people to help her when she needs it the most.

And with the Fresh comparison, again, the themes are different, in Fresh, the focus of the episodes about the stress being Precures put on the girls was mostly on how they were pushing themselves too hard, and how they needed to take care of themselves better. While with Madoka it is more about again, her accepting the support of others rather than doing it all alone.

I can agree to an extent

I'd argue Fresh did the whole coming together bit better by this this point though. Madoka definitely is the most interesting character so far, but I still don't buy the whole father thing again because we saw it before. Her father in her intro episode talks to her about upholding the family name...he does the same thing last episode. It's really not that different. The only thing being the mention of the space ship. If he were to talk about that more in relation to Madoka and how she should be alert that would be more of a progression to me, but it's literally tacked on at the end.

Madoka's main problem isn't that she's not trying to open up to others. I'd argue Milky has the problem even more. Her main problem is clearly pressure. That's why I brought up the Fresh scenario. I don't want this season to copy Fresh, but I feel like the conflict this week was week compared to what i've seen at this point already. Madoka was clearly fine from what we've seen of working with the others like with the rocket. But instead they focus on her not wanting to rely on others? When she already had no problem with that. She was a bit shy when we saw her, but she was overall friendlier compared to how Lala acted.

Which really side-steps the development for her relationship with Elena. I see them trying to make something here (Sun and Moon haha) but it kind of just gets pushed aside. I just wish that focus was more on Elens bringing Madoka out of her shell.

For the first point, well, this is an episodic show, you have to remember that, with few exceptions, most episodes attempt to tell a self-contained story by themselves, yes, we already know Madoka's father is strict from her introductory episode, but for this episode's core narrative to stand on its own inserting that into the story again is necessary to a degree.

And the pressure in these two cases are also clearly different i feel, the Fresh girls were physically pushing themselves too hard, with the story even taking note of how Love is not letting this get to her emotionally. Madoka's problem in comparison seems to mostly come from emotional exhaustion rather than physical exhaustion, for comparison with Fresh, i'd say the episode of Fresh where the girls got their team finisher would be a better comparison, in that episode they were also putting a great burden on themselves, but in that case, it was their own fear of letting Chiffon be endangered that led to said burden rather than outright physical stress.

And i would not say the conflict in this episode contradicts anything already established, you say that she was working with and being friendly to the others before, and yeah, that's kind of one of the ideas, she is trying to be perfect in every way, including as a Precure. Honestly, i should probably phrase it better, the core development for Madoka in this episode isn't that she can rely on others in specific so much so as that she can afford to not be perfect because she can rely on others, that was the point of her not going to her tea cerimony practice and instead going on the shopping trip with Hikaru as well as her conversation with Elena was about, she can afford to just relax and have fun, she does not need to focus every second of her life on being as perfect as possible because she's not alone in this, she has friends who can help her when she needs it. And again, i do not really see how this is out of line for her established character.

"For the first point, well, this is an episodic show, you have to remember that, with few exceptions, most episodes attempt to tell a self-contained story by themselves, yes, we already know Madoka's father is strict from her introductory episode, but for this episode's core narrative to stand on its own inserting that into the story again is necessary to a degree."

I'd argue it really isn't. I remember this is an episodic show, but you don't need to repeat the main point of your character over and over again. If you do you, you end up with characters like Akira from Kira Kira who barely develop because they try to hammer in the the same point. We already got enough information from episode 5 to lampshade Madoka's relationship with her father and how she acts. In order for the narrative to succeed they should continue off of that point. The problem I had with this weeks episode was that the point they tried to hammer in was well...pointless. If you trust your narrative is strong enough you don't need to repeat these facts. Elena's and Madoka's relationship is something they could've used to move the story forward, but instead it's pushed to the side with Elena just giving a speech about relying on her friends. That being said I'm not surprised this happened as apparently the writer for this week's episode was new to Precure.

So while I don't blame them for treading safe waters, I'd rather they start getting to the point. The meat of the issue.

"And the pressure in these two cases are also clearly different i feel, the Fresh girls were physically pushing themselves too hard, with the story even taking note of how Love is not letting this get to her emotionally. Madoka's problem in comparison seems to mostly come from emotional exhaustion rather than physical exhaustion, for comparison with Fresh, i'd say the episode of Fresh where the girls got their team finisher would be a better comparison, in that episode they were also putting a great burden on themselves, but in that case, it was their own fear of letting Chiffon be endangered that led to said burden rather than outright physical stress."

I'd argue while it a majority of the pressure found in Fresh was physically-based it probably would've been better of me to bring up the team finisher episode as that's also a great episode showing how that stress affected them. While the Fresh team definitely had to face more physical problems it still made sense in the grand scheme of the narrative. They took dance seriously (for the most part) so it was only a matter of time before it started to affect them even worse. However, what made it work a bit better in Fresh was that they built up that concept a for a longer period of time. And by that point we knew how much Chiffon (for how annoying they could be) and the team grew together and for how much they cared for one another. We barely know Madoka at this point, so it feels kind of odd that instead of trying to expand upon it, we just get told stuff with that that could've honestly been used for something better. I hesitate to call it wasted potential (it's only episode 9), but I feel a little let down.

"And i would not say the conflict in this episode contradicts anything already established, you say that she was working with and being friendly to the others before, and yeah, that's kind of one of the ideas, she is trying to be perfect in every way, including as a Precure. Honestly, i should probably phrase it better, the core development for Madoka in this episode isn't that she can rely on others in specific so much so as that she can afford to not be perfect because she can rely on others, that was the point of her not going to her tea cerimony practice and instead going on the shopping trip with Hikaru as well as her conversation with Elena was about, she can afford to just relax and have fun, she does not need to focus every second of her life on being as perfect as possible because she's not alone in this, she has friends who can help her when she needs it. And again, i do not really see how this is out of line for her established character."

I wouldn't say it's out of line COMPLETELY for her character. I apologize if I came off as harsh. I just wished we got more of a natural progression. My issues stem from the fact this episode would've worked better if we just spent more time before tackling this issue. This episode wants to talk about multiple things: Madoka's Stress, Madoka's desire to be perfect, her relationship with her friends AND her relationship to Elena and how she doesn't need to rely on herself all the time. These are all good things in their own right, but honestly, but focusing on all these parts, it feels a bit jumbled in its execution.

So as a result, we have her referring to her father once again(due to a new writer) and the stress of her everyday life and then a speech from Elena, someone who's relationship with her has barely been established yet. I'm pretty sure they wanted to show that pressure going into her own life and how she opens up more, but the payoff scenes with her group and Elena feel incomplete. She's barely even interacted with Elena at this point. Elena should not be telling her this THIS early. If it get's revealed later that Elena has a more personal relationship to Madoka compared to rest, i'll take back what I said, but from what the we are shown, they really don't talk to each other much before all this.

Madoka cooperating with others doesn't automatically make her "perfect". And I will admit it's too early to say whether or not her working with the others on the rocket is out of needing to be "perfect" or just from her own desires ( I refer back to episode 5 in which Hikaru asked her what she wanted to do). I won't say this was a bad episode by any means. I enjoyed some tidbits of it, but it felt kind of lacking as @Sterok said it feels like they really aren't using a lot of what they have to their full potential.

Both Madoka episodes felt like they just leapt to their conclusions, skipping a step along the way. These sorts of writing fumbles don't ruin episodes, but they contribute to the episodes feeling off and keeping the show from having something great like Homare's intro. I'd like to say that they'll probably improve now that we've got a status quo to build off of, but Star Twinkle really hasn't impressed me enough to say that'll be the case.

On the point of being episodic, no, i do not consider it a problem to re-establish something so long as the conflict brought from it isn't the same as last time, yes, we already know Madoka's father is strict, but the specifics of how that affects her in each episode is different from one another. So i do not see a problem with bringing it up again since it wields different effects this time.

And you say that Fresh did it better because we spent more time with it, but that's a criticism that is honestly fairly weightless due to how liberally it can be applied with any conflict that only takes up one episode. By that logic, you could criticize any self-contained episode of Precure for not being a three-episode long arc that explores in-depth the ideas and themes it focuses on. Similarly, any story that focuses on characters' relationship with one another could theoretically be made better if you put it later in the story when the connection between these characters have already been established.

And while you say that the episode "tried to focus on too much stuff", i disagree on the basis that all of that stuff is intertwined with one another. You cannot talk about Madoka's stress without talking about her wanting to become perfect because that's the reason she feels stressed to begin with, you cannot talk about her opening up to her friends without giving us the reason of why that's a good thing to begin with by showing us what problems choosing not to open up until now have brought her so far. These aspects are all connected to another in a way where you can't really contain each of them as their own thing.

And i should probably have said this before, but i apologize if im coming off as some type of blind fanboy or something, i do not think this episode is perfect or anything, i myself liked it but didn't feel it was incredible or anything, it could've been better yes, but not because of some big giant issue so much so as that it just didn't go as high as it could, in my view the episode didn't have any particular issues but the good stuff, while good, wasn't mind-blowing or anything. It's just that i don't think that any of the criticism you raise for it really amount to much, to me personally it just kind of comes off as criticizing an apple for not being an orange if you get what i mean.

"On the point of being episodic, no, i do not consider it a problem to re-establish something so long as the conflict brought from it isn't the same as last time, yes, we already know Madoka's father is strict, but the specifics of how that affects her in each episode is different from one another. So i do not see a problem with bringing it up again since it wields different effects this time."

I can agree to disagree on that. I personally find the fact that they have to hammer it in even more just getting old at this point. Like, I get it, her father's kind of overbearing. It just highlights the main conflict of the character, but as I mentioned, it's time they actually did something MORE with that. In the previous episode, Elena felt like she had a bit more of a progression with her character because as the "Sun" of the team she's supposed to bring people together, so having a conflict that ties into that as well as the overall narrative felt like it had more progress to me, compared to this episode despite it being more centered on fetching the pen.

"And you say that Fresh did it better because we spent more time with it, but that's a criticism that is honestly fairly weightless due to how liberally it can be applied with any conflict that only takes up one episode. By that logic, you could criticize any self-contained episode of Precure for not being a three-episode long arc that explores in-depth the ideas and themes it focuses on. Similarly, any story that focuses on characters' relationship with one another could theoretically be made better if you put it later in the story when the connection between these characters have already been established."

Of course you can criticize a precure episodes for not being longer. I honestly do wish precure had more than 50ish episodes because there's so much they could do if they used their time better or even had some more time to develop other concepts. I'm not saying every arc had to be 5 episodes long, but even with Madoka's intro I feel that we should've had one more episode to establish her. For example in Yes 5 , Karen didn't become a cure quickly. It took her at least another episode to become one and I think they used that time effectively to show more of her personality and how she is. I still stand by the fact that basing the girl's desires to protect Fuwa around becoming a cure is not the best idea. However in hindsight (it's too late now) Having one episode in which she discovers the team and then the NEXT episode establishing her conflict would've smoothed it out a bit more.

Theoretically the story could be made better with established characters with a connection, but as I said so far, we barely know if Elena and Madoka even knew each other PAST being classmates. So right now, I'm not sold on it JUST yet. If we get to episode 20 and they do establish other needed stuff, I'll be happy.

"And while you say that the episode "tried to focus on too much stuff", i disagree on the basis that all of that stuff is intertwined with one another. You cannot talk about Madoka's stress without talking about her wanting to become perfect because that's the reason she feels stressed to begin with, you cannot talk about her opening up to her friends without giving us the reason of why that's a good thing to begin with by showing us what problems choosing not to open up until now have brought her so far. These aspects are all connected to another in a way where you can't really contain each of them as their own thing."

These aspects are connected to one another I can agree with that (sorry, should've mentioned they are ALL a part of her character). The problem is the execution so far. I don't think it's really been the best it could be. I think they really could've pushed even ONE of these aspects even further. You can just have one episode on her opening up alone or one episode highlighting the relationship with her father (which I do hope we get soon) There's many ways they can go about it to be fair, but I don't think this was the best way for the long run. Star Twinkle has been fine, but I wouldn't say I've been "impressed" so far.

"And i should probably have said this before, but i apologize if im coming off as some type of blind fanboy or something, i do not think this episode is perfect or anything, i myself liked it but didn't feel it was incredible or anything, it could've been better yes, but not because of some big giant issue so much so as that it just didn't go as high as it could, in my view the episode didn't have any particular issues but the good stuff, while good, wasn't mind-blowing or anything. It's just that i don't think that any of the criticism you raise for it really amount to much, to me personally it just kind of comes off as criticizing an apple for not being an orange if you get what i mean."

Please don't apologize! I tend to sound more abrasive when it comes to writing online so I try to prevent myself from getting out of hand. The only reason I treat this episode as a bigger issue is that these things that they do with their time NOW is going to affect later parts of the show in the future. I'm just a little worried that they won't be using their time well. For example the Rocket-building episode is a nice change of pace, but I wouldn't want to see a lot of those episodes in succession because nothing too significant happened story-wise/character-wise minus the worldbuilding of the AI. You could just say, they rebuild the rocket and it doesn't really affect much in the next episode. Character episodes should be treated with a BIT more caution because all it takes it one wrong move to completely screw over a character (I'm still salty about Saaya). All I'm trying to say is that I want the writers to really start stepping up their game.

10. Wow. The Precure lost a battle and had to retreat. When was the last time that happened?

Edited by DS9guy on Apr 6th 2019 at 8:41:15 AM

• For some reason spoiler tag isn't working*

Honestly it was for the best.

Edited by Ducolamia on Apr 7th 2019 at 11:31:30 AM

10. Hikaru gets some good lines this episode, and her tendency to jump straight to doing what seems most interesting is being addressed. There may be hope for her after all. Integrating the government search with the episode without making it about that really helps make the show feel more cohesive. I was promised Planet Mofurun and did not get that. Disappoint. Guess magic can only help them so much when untransformed. Very much enjoyed the theme of how harsh planets can get. Villains stepping up their game already is a good sign. All 4 generals were good and got some much needed depth, though Kappard was the standout. Intense battle with Kappard's power-up being able to interrupt stock footage, and the butler being smart enough to make sure Eyewon doesn't throw away their victory. Points to Lala and Prunce for knowing how to stage a hasty retreat. Tenjou showing care for her troops was nice for her and shows the villains' limits, which is always appreciated. All in all, a very good shit gets real moment, and possibly Star Twinkle's first great episode.

Found this article that helps me appreciate KiraKira more.

Edited by Sterok on Apr 7th 2019 at 11:44:39 AM

Episode was very fun, though what i find most interesting about this episode are the implications it gives for possible future plotlines. Hikaru seemed extra-enthusiastic about her adventures this time around and the reason for it was trying to get a picture of the Southern Cross for Mr. Ryou, i may be going in over my head with my expectations but i wonder if the show will explore more about their history together beyond the basic fact that she used to go to the observatory ever since she was a child.

Another thing that interests me were Kappard's and Tenjou's lines to the Precure, the way Kappard talked about how a planet as harsh as Kumarino's has no reason to exist and how the Precure only got to live in comfortable enviroments, as well as Tenjou's words about the Precure not possibly being able to understand such things just screams to me as if those two are going to get some type of backstory in the future.

11. Finally, I've missed the old op. Space tech is good. Everything to do with the Diet feels tonally out of place. Not in a bad way, but it certainly feels different from the norm. Some nice introspection with Hikaru on whether she's actually using her imagination or just following on whatever looks pretty at the moment. Seems to be both? She is too whimsical and needs to learn when to hold back, but she is capable of considering out there possibilities and exposes others to new ideas. Not bad development this early on, but they need to go further in some way. I do like how we're getting a bit of the villains' motives even now. Who took down Kappard's planet? They're not asking for sympathy, but they would appreciate it. Bakenyan remains cool. Big bad Darknest reacted to Hikaru's power-up. Hmmm. New attack is eh. Decent follow-up, but I'm not yet confident they can build on this momentum. Guess it's time for Lala to get a formal Earth identity.

Edited by Sterok on Apr 14th 2019 at 12:14:10 PM

I don't know if this is just something obvious that me, being a dummy, failed to realize until now or not, but some of the lines in this episode give me the impression that a large part of the conflict in the series on a thematic level is meant to be about a dichotomy between "Understanding and being knowledgeable of something" and "Imagining how that something is", or perhaps it can be better described as "Realism" and "Idealism" (Since that would fit into the Imagination theme).

Lines from both this and the previous episode show the villains as having a mindset that the Precure are too idealistic, that they are naive and do not understand the actual hardships and difficulties of the real world. And the Power-Up moment where Hikaru and the others gain their Twinkle Sticks shows that while what the villains say is true to a certain extent, that does not mean that this idealistic attitude is worthless, and that it is this idealistic wanderlust that can be what lets you go through new experiences and learn new things, and this can all be exactly what is necessary to deal with the aforementioned hardships and difficulties one faces.

Again, i can't tell if this stuff is obvious and im just a dummy who didn't get it from the start because im too stupid or if it's actually clever writing.

Edited by Murozaki on Apr 14th 2019 at 6:27:39 AM

12. Huh. What? Uh, sure. So Steven Spielberg and/or JJ Abrams is actually an alien controlling a robot person and has been making movies for a century, and he's here to enforce the rules of the galactic alliance. Also apparently he's a big enough deal that the Prime Minister gives him carte blanche to do whatever he needs to film his next movie because this is important for Japan/US relations. And Hikaru embedded a shuriken in his head. Like, the character work really isn't impressing me here (though Madoka reading the entire script instead of just her lines was amusing), but this is the kind of ridiculous nonsense I want more out of this show. Hikaru impulsively putting them in a bad spot right after she learned not to do that doesn't make her look good. At least Lala has a full name now.

Yeah. So far, I'm not a fan of how they're treating the character's arc this season. Especially Hikaru's. I can buy that she'd very energetic and reckless, but I'm not a fan or how episode 11 kind of stopped short. Maybe we'll get more in future, so I'll wait for that. Don't get me wrong, the villains did give her a proper beat-down. She does lack foresight for her problems, but I'm not a huge fan of how the team immediately chimes in and props her up as if she ALREADY had that foresight (or imagination) within her. Not saying they can't be supportive, but she clearly has issues that needs to be settled out. It also doesn't help that in this episode Hikaru repeats the same mistake again.

As for the villains this series, they're doing fine, I guess. Kappard is entertaining but Tengou and Aiwarn are pretty bad. Especially Aiwarn. If anyone deserved the powerup it should've been Kappard as he's clearly the most competent out of the group. Tengou appears rather randomnly (I know they have a radar, but still it feels a bit clunky) and Aiwarn lost not one, but 2 TWO pens. And nearly lost a third one last episode if her butler didn't stop her. Though I am interested in whether or not he'll play a bigger role seeing that he noticed Hikaru going Super Saiyan.

Hikaru's idealism and overall irrationality has been portrayed as a double-edged sword so far, in a way that i very much doubt is unintentional. In this very episode it is what causes them to have to make the movie in the first place, but working in the movie itself is what ends up leading to them filming the movie's farewell scene and Hikaru and Lala going off-script on instinct, which is what convinces the director to let Lala stay on Earth and ends the conflict.

To make decisions based entirely on gut feelings and instincts seems to be the core of Hikaru's character, and it is something that has, so far, helped the main cast more than hindered them, even when it is only expressed in small ways.

In Episodes 1 and 2 it is what leads her and Lala into becoming Precure, with the latter episode in specific placing great emphasis on how Hikaru doesn't let realistic odds stop her. In subsequent episodes, mostly 6, 7 and 8, it is expressed in smaller ways while still having a positive impact on the characters involved. But in Episode 9 it is this type of thinking that has only helped the main cast so far that ends up causing only more problems, while the next episode goes on to reaffirm the positive impact it caused on previous episodes.

So overall, i personally wouldn't worry too much about Hikaru's characterization, it seems the story is aware that her personality can cause problems for the characters, and this is something i doubt won't become even more relevant in the future. But i don't think they are portraying her as just some incompetent girl that only exists to generate more conflict in the narrative only to then give her a small slap in the wrist. This entire season so far seems to be exploring Imagination through a conflict of Idealism Vs. Realism, and so far it doesn't seem like Idealism will be portrayed as being the right thing 100% of the time.

Edited by Murozaki on Apr 24th 2019 at 12:24:23 PM

@Murozaki

I absolutely agree! Hikaru's ideology of just running with it has been a double-edged sword throughout the series and I'm kind of glad it is, it adds a nice balance to her character I don't think we've seen in Pretty Cure a lot. Usually we have reckless main characters but they are the butt of the joke in Precure. However, with Hikaru it seems to be a core part of her character I'm hoping they explore a bit more. It does seem to me the there is some idealism versus realism in this seasons as well. I suspect with the villains they are trying to set up how harsh the world can be on their side of the equation, but in all possibility the Star Twinkle Cures definitely represent the idealism. It is a balance in a way. Too much idealism isn't a good thing as it can blind us from seeing things through (mostly seen with Hikaru and how she kind of lacks a lot of foresight in her idealism) but too much realism can lead to be overly pessimistic and not caring about too much of anything else (the villains so far). I wonder if they will address more of that in the future.

That being said Hikaru does have some really nice moments with each of the group and the story at least seems to admit that she is kind reckless. However, I always feel they can push the characterization even further before getting into the nitty gritty.We haven't even seen a lot of her home life yet and it's this late already. I'm not upset at the concepts they are choosing to show, just not a huge fan of the execution. However, the show isn't over yet so I won't make any claims that I think it's terrible (that would be unfair) just not too impressed so far.