Marvel Cinematic Universe

Yes and no, AOU make Cap a bit of blood knight and soldier without a war, meanwhile the russo brother pick him more as someone with chronic heroism syndrome: he have to answer when there is trouble.

Cap in Avenger also have that issue, he seen more of a....well, soldier, even when in civil war he admit it he never fit at all.

And more glaring, Tony saying he is Cap friend made no sense what so ever considering in phase 1 they didnt like each other that much.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

You do realized they became friends in the Avengers right?

That's what that whole scene with them talking post Coulson death was about: them coming to an understanding about the other.

One Strip! One Strip!

Sure they got along in AOU just fine afteward, isnt?.

Between AOU and CW, they dont really seen to get you every well-

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Are you saying they don't get along that well?

Well yeah, I'd say that AOU probably strained things a bit, and Civil War put more pressure on both of them, but even then, as soon as Tony thought Steve was legitimately right, he immediately dropped everything and rushed to help. If not for Zemo's plan plunging a knife right into the heart of that friendship, they might have just patched things up again.

Sometimes, friends fight...to the death...

One Strip! One Strip!

Yeah, by the end of The Avengers, Tony and Steve were friends. I wouldn't say best friends, but they were definitely good friends.

a little bit? Considering Steve was really close to stop Vision for being Born I will said a bit is underseeling it.

Which it kinda ruin the momentin the movie because so far, Tony look more friend of Banner than Steve.

In fact, considering Ultron is Tony mind to some extend, one can interpretated Ultron coment of Steve is the same as Tony.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Um, you can have more than one friend, you know. Bruce and Tony hit it off and became Science Bros. Tony and Steve were just friends who respected each other.

That is the thing: before Civil war is hard to remenber a moment between those two that isnt bickering and arguing with each other, more that respect, they seen to have a very "your way there, my way here", which make them collage or work parner than anything else.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

To paraphrase Thor, "They're friends from work."

Edited by RavenWilder on Dec 8th 2018 at 9:59:32 AM

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko

And even Friend is too much, like I said they are collagues or that guy who you see at work and nothing else.

If anything I will like to see a friendship of Natasha and Tony or other member of the avenger in general.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

They had an entire party in the beginning of AOU. In fact, the very first lines of the film are Tony gentling ribbing Cap:

I deeply hate/hated that joke. It’s not friendship. It’s just there and it’s not funny.

I agree; they didn’t do a good job selling The Avengers as a family. Nat and Clint? Yeah. Clint and everyone else? Meh. Sam and Nat and Steve? Yeah, actually really really well. Steve and Bruce? Kiiiinda. Nat and Bruce? Eeesh not touching that. Thor and everyone? Kinda? Steve and Tony? Nope.

I dont know how much it count since Tony bother everyone(I mean he give Banner a shock to see if he transform...which is very dickish of him) and considering Ultron(who is to some extended Tony unfettered) Opinion of Cap.....

Edited by unknowing on Dec 8th 2018 at 2:25:28 PM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

I mean, during the movie, they had a massive disagreement, but they end the movie on good and friendly terms, even joking about Thor's hammer again. "Elevator's not worthy!"

Problem is the disagrement never really goes away, it just get sidestep when Thor show up to finish Vision in general, the movie just short take their friendship as face value.

I mean isnt surprising, Wheedon seen to build on Civil war as growing disliking between Tony and Cap, sort like tv show would do it(not surprising considering Wheedon forte) but the actual movie move that aside to a complete unrelated direction.

But if anything the diference arent as bad as Iron man 3 compare to Civil war, to watch tony in the former to the later is just....depresing, REALLY depresing.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

It's because Joss Whedon thinks the Avengers should be invincible, and that their only actual enemy should be their own incompetence and idiocy.

My various fanfics.

It kinda show, specially with Tony and Cap who disliking ins very transparent compare to the subtle tension in Civil war.

As I see, Cap and Tony really rub each other the wrong way in both movies and civil war as suposed to be the breaking point, the fact Cap almost crash Tony atempt with Vision said AT LOT.

But...none of that is used in Civil war, if a lot of stuff from AOU is told in CW in general.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Uh, no. They have plenty of enemies, but the one enemy that they can't fight is themselves. And it isn't "incompetence and idiocy," it's the fact that they are different people with different ways of viewing the world and those viewpoints can come into conflict.

Tell that to Joss.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I'm pretty sure he knows since that's how he wrote them. At no point in either Avengers or Age of Ultron do any of the Avengers come across as idiotic or incompetent.

Frankly, this Joss hate is silly. Especially since the statement that he thought their only enemy was their own "idiocy and incompetence" was just blatantly false and easily disproven, since, you know, the movies give them an actual enemy aside from themselves: Ultron. You know, the robot that nearly kills them.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 8th 2018 at 11:45:53 AM

...

It took me a moment to realize you actually think we made up that Joss feels that way.

You do realize that was his explicit defining concept to writing the team and there characters therein (that is, that the Avengers as a team are invincible, and thus the only reason they don't run roughshot over every enemy is because they must be too busy fighting or tripping over each oter to succeed at the time)? He was pretty clear it about during the time he was in charge of the Avengers series, and it defines the plot of both movies.

People have known that was his ideology for years. Hell, Marvel in turn explicitly took that conceptualization of the team themselves and used it to build their Avengers Assemble tie-in adaptation.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 9th 2018 at 12:11:32 PM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Honestly, I don't see the issue there. Those characters aren't in some sort of glas case between movies, you know. We learn at the beginning of Ao U, that they came together to take down Hydra bases after the fall of Shield. Meaning they were fighting together for a whole year, and they developed a rapport so good, they are moving like one unit at this point.

Sure Howard was always something which kind of strained the relationship between Tony and Steve specifically, but they are still friends at this point.

That's why Vision and Wanda works so well for me, too. We see just enough that I can fill the blanks in their relationship. I don't need to see it, though, I have seen it so often in movies, it would be boring. But I understand what they see in each other and that they spend a lot of time together despite actually belonging to different sides in the conflict.

Please, find me the interview where he says that the Avengers only enemy was their "idiocy and incompetence." There isn't one. There are interviews where he says that the Avengers are a bunch of different types of characters from different genres that shouldn't be able to work together and yet somehow do — but that is completely different from what you guys are saying he said.

Again, find me the quote where he says that. I've looked all around and can't find anything remotely like it.

No, the Avengers Assemble tie-in was based on the team line up from the movies. Neither the cartoon nor the comic book is based on the team being "idiotic and incompetent."

I actually liked that about the movies. <.<

The Fantastic Four are supposed to be a family, with its own dysfunctions and quirks here and there but devoted to one another all the same.

The X-Men are supposed to be an activist group with a steadily growing core of people from a rainbow spectrum of backgrounds and experiences, coming together to stand in unison against an oppressive majority that seeks to diminish them based on a single shared trait.

But the Avengers are more like a job. Sometimes you like your colleagues and sometimes you don't. Either way, there's a lot of mobility so you never have to get too used to anyone. You're always on-call to show up to fight Kang the Conqueror or whoever but you don't really have to hang out at the office and socialize in your off-hours if that's not your thing.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 9th 2018 at 8:19:48 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

I saw them as a group of friends of the kind of friendship grown out of fighting together. Some are closer to each other than others, but they all respect each other because, well, they rescued each others life.