Line #39 YMMV/Ghostbusters2016


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2	* AlasPoorScrappy: Martin Heiss is arguably the most hated character in the movie, but many will agree that his death is undeserving despite him being a {{Jerkass}}.
3	* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: When we first meet Patty and Rowan, the latter takes a moment out to say that nobody cares about her, and that when the Fourth Cataclysm comes, "laborers" like her will be the last to die. Is Rowan genuinely taking pity on a fellow lower member of society and offering what he thinks are kind words in his own warped mind, or is he just screwing with her?
4	* AngstWhatAngst:
5	** In general, this film is far more jokey than the original, which was filled with humor, but still treated the threat of the ghosts quite seriously. This has caused detractors to criticize the characters for often having rather immature reactions to the genuine danger of their positions.
6	** Erin really doesn't seem to feel that bad over playing a direct role in [[spoiler: the death of Martin Heiss]]. In fact, the whole team seem to take the whole thing pretty well. Sure, [[{{Jerkass}} he was a douche]], but that doesn't mean he deserved [[spoiler: to get murdered]], even if Erin didn't mean for that to happen.
7	* {{Anvilicious}}: Female empowerment is very much a theme of the film. However, it occasionally comes across as clunky due to the [[WomenAreWiser negative portrayal of men being stupid, wrong, and/or evil]].
8	* AudienceAlienatingPremise: Regardless of the controversy surrounding its leading female cast, a reboot of one of the most beloved 80s horror comedies without the involvement of the original cast and Creator/IvanReitman was always gonna be a tough sell. Especially amongst fans who preferred a sequel to the original films or those who feel the original film worked ''because'' of the specific combination and chemistry between Ivan and the original cast. Unsurprisingly, one of, if not the biggest criticism aimed towards the film was its poor attempts to recreate the original film and its tone and humor without understanding how and why it worked in the first place. As a result of this, despite having a good opening weekend, the film would go on to become a BoxOfficeBomb.
9	* BaseBreakingCharacter:
10	** Patty sparked debates over whether or not her savvy qualities and knowledge of New York history cancel out any offensiveness caused by her stereotypical SassyBlackWoman humor and lack of a Ph.D. This is made more complicated due to the director revealing that the role was originally written for Melissa [=McCarthy=], until he was impressed enough by Leslie Jones in a few ''Saturday Night Live'' sketches to switch things around.
11	** Kevin's stupidity makes him either entertaining comic relief, or an obnoxious detriment to the team.
12	** Holtzmann. Many pointed to her as being the best part of the movie due to her insane and hammy nature, while others found her to be annoyingly over the top and too much of a caricature in contrast with her teammates.
13	* BetterOnDVD: Some of [[http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-extended-ghostbusters-cut-fixes-some-of-the-films-b-1787212329 the scenes]] added to the extended cut help flesh out Rowan and Erin, [[spoiler:including the reason Erin separates from the other Ghostbusters for a while.]]
14	* BrokenBase:
15	** Is the movie a refreshing take on a classic franchise with proven actresses leading the way to sure success, or an unnecessary rehash that feels like a pathetic attempt at appealing to politically correct sensibilities? Everyone has an opinion, and those who are vocal about theirs feel ''very'' strongly about it. There are also those who couldn't care one way or another about the "Political Correctness" debate, but insist that [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight the original film only works because of the specific combination of its four stars]], and are worried about [[ItsTheSameNowItSucks trying to rehash the original story with new actors]].
16	** Are the visual effects [[SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome awesome]] or [[SpecialEffectFailure underwhelming]] for a $154 million budget? People don't seem to agree on this, either.
17	** Is the fact that it's a reboot instead of a continuation a good or a bad thing? There's an argument for both sides.
18	* CatharsisFactor: After the mayor pretending not to know about the ghosts and harassing the Ghostbusters into silence, it's a bit of RootingForTheEmpire that Rowan through Kevin turns his government agent friends and the army into PeoplePuppets, making them dance around 'cause it's cool.
19	* CrazyIsCool: Holtzmann: Nuclear engineer, can find seven uses for a cadaver on sight, and nonchalantly chows down on Pringles when faced with evidence of the afterlife.
20	-->'''Jillian:''' You try saying no to these salty parabolas.
21	* CriticalBacklash: The film received nuclear levels of controversy from just its initial announcements and previews, [[OvershadowedByControversy and the vitriol levelled towards it never went away during its theatrical run]], no doubt leading to it [[BoxOfficeBomb bombing in the box office]]. However, in the following years as the high emotions have calmed down (helped by ''Film/GhostbustersAfterlife'' taking some of the bad taste away), the consensus towards this reboot has shifted from "one of the worst affronts to a nostalgic franchise ever committed to cinema" to "just a typically bad-to-[[SoOkayItsAverage average]] blockbuster that failed its franchise, but in a pretty middling way." In retrospect, its gravest flaw is being attached to ''Ghostbusters'' and simply ''not'' being [[DevelopmentHell the true, ultimately ill-fated sequel]] that longtime fans had craved, but beyond the intense periphery and biases from diehard fans (and ''especially'' the heavily politicized debates surrounding [[GenderFlip its all-female main cast]]), this isn't treated as extreme a deal-breaker as it was during release.
22	* DiagnosedByTheAudience: Holtzmann's savant-like genius for engineering coupled with her generally odd, manic and eccentric behaviour, making loud random sounds, and lack of interest in[=/=]ability with conventional social skills and norms can be read as her appearing on a spectrum somewhere. One particular indicator is the distinctive yellow-lensed goggles / glasses she tends to wear; while these could be a stylistic choice or a tool to help with her work, colour-tinted glasses have also been used as a method of treating sensory overload, perception issues, and visual distortion in [[HollywoodAutism autism]][=/=][[UsefulNotes/AspergerSyndrome Aspergers spectrum]] patients, among other visual disorders. She was also observed by some viewers to depict autistic traits, or more specifically, someone with Asperger syndrome.
23	* DontShootTheMessage: Suffice it to say, one of the main reasons why detractors hate the movie is because of this trope. Many felt that the feminist message of the movie was over-exaggerated, aggressive, and possibly even misandristic due to the way the male characters are portrayed. Even some feminists didn't like the way the message was handled.
24	* FanNickname:
25	** Referred to as ''Lady Ghostbusters'', ''Girlbusters'' or ''The Female Ghostbusters'' so as to separate this new film from the original.
26	** ''Film/{{Bridesmaids}} 2: The Ghost Catchers''.
27	** The cast themselves are referred to as the "[[FeministFantasy Patriarchy Busters]]".
28	* FandomRivalry: One sprung up as soon as ''Film/GhostbustersAfterlife'' was announced, which only intensified when the film was released. Many heated debates were had over which one was the better way to modernize the franchise.
29	* HarsherInHindsight: The Extended Edition adds a scene where Erin gets involved in a public scandal, and Patty advises her to "shake off" haters' efforts to shame her. Leslie Jones ended up having to heed those words after she became hacked and harassed online; this became a little less harsh by the time the ''Ghostbusters'' Extended Edition hit home video, when she used the incidents as basis for new ''SNL'' sketches.
30	* SugarWiki/HeReallyCanAct: Chris Hemsworth becomes chilling when playing a Rowan-possessed Kevin. His voice becomes lower and his body language drastically changes. You can believe the movie's DitzySecretary just became a competent, apocalyptic supervillain.
31	* HoYay: Holtzmann is quite flirtatious with the other female characters throughout the movie, but is particularly so with Erin, who frequently appears awkward but otherwise flattered by her attentions.
32	** Holtzmann introducing herself to Erin flirtatiously.
33	--->'''Holtzmann:''' Holtzmann. Virgo. Avid-skier. Gluten-full. And 100% jazzed to meet you.
34	** One of the first things Holtzmann notices about Erin is that she carries a lot of tension in her shoulders.
35	** When Erin and Abby are talking about the book in the lab, Holtzmann is seen putting her arm around Abby.
36	--->'''Abby:''' Holtzmann works for me here in this lab. She's a brilliant engineer and very loyal. She would not abandon you.
37	** Holtzmann winking at Erin while Abby talks.
38	** The whole TheMissusAndTheEx dynamic between Erin, Abby and Holtzmann; although never (overtly identified as) a romantic couple, Erin and Abby were research partners and friends until Erin 'dumped' Abby, leading to initial tension and awkwardness when Erin reenters Abby's life only to find that Abby has replaced her with Holtzmann, a younger, more dynamic and confident partner with whom she appears to gel better. Gradually downplayed, however, as beyond that initial tension Erin and Abby gradually begin to renew their friendship and, beyond some initial protectiveness and teasing, Holtzmann doesn't show that much hostility towards Erin (and in fact seems much fonder of flirting incessantly with her).
39	** Holtzmann joking about queefing and asking if she could do a live demonstration for Abby and Erin.
40	** Holtzmann videotaping Erin, getting too close for comfort and asking about her wardrobe.
41	--->'''Holtzmann:''' Ma'am, can you tell us where you got the world's tiniest bow tie?
42	** Abby practically fawning over the Aldridge Mansion ghost and describing the ghost in the mansion as "the most beautiful thing I had ever seen" and telling it up close "I think you're gorgeous".
43	--->'''Abby:''' We saw a ghost. You know, and she was beautiful. But, I got to say, even that was kind of spectacularly beautiful.
44	** Holtzmann appearing right behind Erin in the frame of their video as they celebrate having seen the Aldridge Mansion ghost.
45	** Holtzmann lip-syncing and dancing along to "Rhythm Of The Night" by [=DeBarge=] to impress Erin.
46	** This exchange between Patty and Holtzmann in the subway:
47	--->'''Patty:''' Baby, if I knew what it was, I wouldn't say "a weird sparking thing".\
48	'''Holtzmann:''' You're mouthy. I like that.
49	** Holtzmann getting close to Erin in the subway by having her go first and test their new untested nuclear laser gun aimed at the ghost in the subway. Complimenting her by saying she has the longest arms. Followed by her putting protection collar on her neck.
50	** Holtzmann immediately yanking the equipment collar off Erin's neck and saving her from the subway ghost and the oncoming train.
51	** Erin and Abby talking about how they bonded through ghost stories in college and being each other's only friend.
52	--->'''Erin:''' Abby was the only one who believed in me.
53	** Holtzmann telling Erin she has questions for her, then she winks at her. Erin smiles and accepts this.
54	** Holtzmann's wink afterwards isn't just a flirt, it's also a moment of genuine camaraderie and support after Erin shares her painful story.
55	** Holtzmann smiling in awe at Abby and Erin's presentation and telling Patty thank you for requesting such. Followed by her rhythmic clapping applause and telling Erin and Abby she's so happy that they got back together. Pitching their cheeks while doing so with a group hug.
56	** Holtzmann playfully scaring Erin by standing close by wearing a purple 80's hair metal wig.
57	** The "crossing streams" reference. When trying to stop the ghost, Holtzmann warns Erin not to let her beam get entangled with Holtzmann's beam because of too much power and it would cause a counter-reaction. Because she's concerned for her safety.
58	** Holtzmann telling Erin and Abby that they're all doing great and Patty to try a little harder.
59	** When Erin and Patty are dancing together to "Up In Here" by DMX after catching a ghost. When Kevin starts dancing, Patty is not interested in him and stops dancing while Erin, due to her crush on him, keeps on dancing.
60	** Abby and Erin's argument in front of Martin Heiss when unleashing a ghost to impress him:
61	--->'''Abby:''' Excuse me. Why are you doing this?\
62	'''Erin:''' Because he doesn't believe us.\
63	'''Abby:''' Erin, come on, we have finally succeeded at doing the thing that we have talked about since we were little kids. And you want to risk it all, what, for him? Who cares if you impress him?\
64	'''Martin Heiss:''' Oh, golly, you two are something.
65	** The way Holtzmann shows them all the new equipment she's designed for them comes across as her trying to cheer them up.
66	** Holtzmann specifically asks Erin to go first during a weapons assessment since she says she's had a long day. She also gives Erin her own personal Swiss army knife, obviously caring a lot about her safety.
67	** Erin is lamenting how orange her hair is after some hastily applied dye, and Holtzmann says "I'd talk to you at an AA meeting," and just keeps beaming happily at Erin and grinning even as she takes a drink.
68	** Erin kept the Swiss Army knife Holtzmann gave her and used it to save the group from the stay puft balloon ghost.
69	** "I wasn't going to abandon you a second time."
70	* InformedWrongness: Erin is treated as ridiculous for wanting Abby to take down their book from Amazon. Except...she makes a lot of legitimate points that she never gave her consent on it, and it's implied Abby is withholding Erin's share of the royalties out of bitterness towards their grudge. Not helping matters is that Abby does it ''again'', posting a video of the ghost at the Aldridge Mansion without Erin's consent, which went viral and got Erin fired. Her only response to a crying Erin is to offer to hire her at the university where she works. What's more, [[spoiler:when you're ridiculed for years because you saw a ghost and couldn't convince anyone, you would do all you can to deny the lady who stood over your bed for a year]].
71	* LGBTFanbase: Many fans are sapphic women drawn in by the strong female relationships. The quirky, AmbiguouslyGay Holtzmann has an especially sizable lesbian fanbase, and that's just in addition to Creator/KateMcKinnon's existing gay fanbase.
72	* MemeticMutation:
73	** [[http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/ghostbusters-hospital-visit The cast visited a children's hospital]] with gigantic, goofy-looking grins on their faces in a number of photos. Unfortunately, [[MoodDissonance many of the patients looked like they were about to die]] (or at, least, were very, very ill), and a number of viewers with [[BlackComedy morbid tastes in humor]] joked that they were there to capture the ghosts of the dying kids. Others simply made fun of the sheer contrast in the images and note how the images themselves appear to be in poor taste. One resulting running joke was that the kids look so depressed because they wanted to see the ''original'' Ghostbusters, and got these "knockoffs" instead.
74	** A variant of the CatchPhrase, as employed by the film's detractors: "'Who you gonna call?' [[DeadpanSnarker Someone else.]]"[[note]]This phrase actually comes from the movie ''Film/{{Casper}}'', where Creator/DanAykroyd [[TheCameo cameos as Ray Stantz]] to rid the house of Casper's uncles, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0IXDaJ1Tc then remarks this as he flees from the house.]][[/note]]
75	** After Creator/ErnieHudson expressed optimism for the reboot (with it being announced that he was also given a cameo), [[http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/3613/9159/original.jpg a picture]] quoting him saying he'll believe anything if he receives a steady paycheck began circulating.
76	** "I don't know if it was a race thing or a lady thing, but I'm mad as hell."
77	* {{Narm}}: Rowan drawing the Ghostbusters logo but with sharp teeth. You might expect the film to joke about how juvenile this act is, but it's instead presented as a straightforward nefarious moment.
78	* OlderThanTheyThink: Martin Heiss' being called "a notorious buster" hearkens back to the original meaning of "ghost-buster"--one who investigated and either confirmed or debunked hauntings[[note]]the other term is "ghost breaker"[[/note]].
79	* OneSceneWonder:
80	** Most of the cameos from the original movie's cast members[[note]]Bill Murray doesn't qualify for this trope, since he appears in two scenes.[[/note]] can provide highlights for viewers of both pictures.
81	** The skeletal ringmaster ghost who serves as a MookLieutenant only appears briefly during the final fight, but he's tall, imposing, and creepy.
82	* OvershadowedByControversy: This has been cited as a reason for the film not performing well at the box office. The many arguments and fights between the film's detractors, its supporters, and the staff involved in its creation have become next to impossible to ignore even for those who were not previously interested or didn't even know the film existed. Even today, the controversy usually gets brought up whenever people talk about the film, even if only in passing.
83	* PortmanteauCoupleName: Fans call the Jillian Holtzmann/Erin Gilbert ship "Holtzbert".
84	* TheProblemWithLicensedGames:
85	** The self-titled ''Ghostbusters'' presented a rushed-to-market bore, that didn't even feature the same main characters. The developer [[http://kotaku.com/ghostbusters-developer-fireforge-games-goes-bankrupt-1784625739 filed for bankruptcy]] a few days after its release.
86	** The ''VideoGame/LegoDimensions'' Story Pack adapted from the movie fared better critically, but might still seem overpriced for a game that only takes about three hours to finish[[note]]Its $49.99 MSRP made it the most expensive ''LEGO Dimensions'' add-on to date[[/note]], and suffered from some critical bugs. Most dangerously, some players have reported the game freezing up on the last level, and upon rebooting the console, finding their progress for ''all'' of the dimensions erased.
87	* TheScrappy:
88	** Rowan is [[NightmareRetardant very far from from threatening]] and has too weak a backstory and forgettable a presence for their first BigBad.
89	** While he's meant to be disliked due to his {{Jerkass}} nature, you'll find very few who actually enjoyed Martin Heiss. This is due to the general consensus that Creator/BillMurray [[DullSurprise sleep walked through his whole performance]], putting in no effort. Additionally, his [[spoiler: UndignifiedDeath]] is regarded by many as a TakeThat in retaliation for his reluctance to appear. Ultimately, while [[TheCameo the appearances of the original actors]] were meant to show the original actors PassingTheTorch, Murray's involvement was seen as lacking, insulting to him, and sparked talk about behind the scenes drama.
90	** The Dean of the university rejecting Erin, Abby and Holtzmann's request for more money to fund their ghost hunting. Being essentially rude to them, loud and obnoxious, and very immature. Continually flipping the bird.
91	* SignatureScene:
92	** For many with a negative view of the movie, the scene from the second trailer where Patty insults a crowd of people while expecting her to catch them, then accuses them of racism and/or sexism when they don't catch her[[note]]even ''after'' the same crowd caught one of the other Ghostbusters[[/note]] is considered a perfect representation of the film and the director's attitude.
93	** People who do like the movie would pick Holtzmann licking her pistols and zapping ghosts, to demonstrate how kick-ass it could be when not trying too hard to emulate the original film.
94	* SoOkayItsAverage: What the general critical response has boiled down to. Most reviews, aside from diehard fans of the original or people who were biased in favour of the film, fell into the category of saying that it wasn't as bad as the trailers made it out to seem, but not a good film in its own right.
95	* SpecialEffectFailure:
96	** One of the common criticisms of the trailers is that the CG graphics, particularly for the ghosts, look very cheap and cartoonish, as if they were taken straight out of a live action ''Film/ScoobyDoo'' film. Interestingly, there were talks of doing several of the ghosts [[http://character-shop.com/tcsgbslimers.html practically]], but it never came to be due to budget cuts.
97	** In one scene near the end, Erin’s dialogue was clearly added in post, as her mouth doesn’t move when she says it.
98	* TaintedByThePreview: When the trailer came out, reactions were extremely divided, with many feeling that the film was relegated to a standard comedy movie rather than the horror/comedy mix that made the original famous. Of course, those who defended the movie also pointed out that the all-female cast was similar to the original cast on the grounds that, with the exception of Ernie Hudson and Harold Ramis in the original movie, they were all cast members of ''Series/SaturdayNightLive''. Some fans ended up resorting to [[http://io9.gizmodo.com/this-fan-edited-ghostbusters-trailer-fixes-several-prob-1762935173 making their own versions]] of the trailers in order to fix most of the problems the trailer had (such as removing humorless jokes and unnecessary one-liners). Melissa [=McCarthy=] herself has called the trailer a terrible depiction of the movie, though she was mostly concerned with the "thirty years ago" opening giving the false impression that the film would be in the same continuity as the original.
99	* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The original's tight script that provided realistic drama with excellent and fast moving one liners is replaced with a much sillier feel where a huge chunk of the jokes are slow moving pieces of rambling improv. The sheer difference in both movie's respective approaches to comedy is jarring, and many fans of the original didn't care for this reboot's feel being so dissimilar to the original.
100	* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Both cuts of the film (as well as some deleted takes) dance around the fact that Rowan is an EvilCounterpart of the team, and fleshing out how he was similarly bullied all of his life like the main cast could've helped make him a more interesting villain.
101	* UnintentionallySympathetic: [[{{Jerkass}} Martin Heiss is clearly a dick]], so when [[spoiler: he gets murdered]], we're supposed to see him as [[spoiler: an AssholeVictim]]. The problem is that aside from being [[SmugSnake a smarmy jerk]], he doesn't do anything that bad, meaning his comeuppance feels like some major DisproportionateRetribution. Erin [[KarmaHoudini never paying]] for her role in [[spoiler: his death]] makes it even worse.
102	* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
103	** Abby and Holtzmann being responsible for making the video depicting Erin shouting "ghosts are real!" which ended up costing Erin her job at the University. They both promised Erin they would take the book down from the website, only to videotape Erin and the rest of them celebrating and post it online not long after. When Erin confronted them about it, neither woman takes full responsibility for their actions and instead put the blame on online trolls for Erin losing her teaching job and not being taken seriously.
104	** Erin unleashing a captured ghost just to prove Martin Heiss wrong. It would be one thing if it was just a heat of the moment decision, but she still does it anyway even after Abby makes it clear what a horrible and dangerous idea it is. Making matters worse is how she seems to immediately get over any guilt in directly causing Heiss' death.
105	*** Holtzmann also comes across as incredibly insensitive when she makes an insulting quip about Heiss mere seconds after his death.
106	* SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome: The 3D version of the film took full advantage of the opportunity to have ghosts and other objects flying out of the screen.
107	* WatchedItForTheRepresentation: The film attracted a large female audience, including those new to the franchise, who were interested in seeing [[GenderFlip an all-female Ghostbusters team]].

Context YMMV / Ghostbusters2016