Line #16 Headscratchers/SaintsRowIV


1	New entries on the bottom.
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3	'''As a Headscratchers subpage, all spoilers are unmarked [[Administrivia/SpoilersOff as per policy.]] Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned.'''
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6	[[foldercontrol]]
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8	[[folder:Tracked during rescue]]
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10	* In the mission where you save Johnny Gat, there's a disagreement onboard the ship where both Kinzie and Matt Miller think saving Johnny Gat is a terrible idea, reasoning that by doing so, they'd have to tap into his mind and that would be signaling to Zinyak exactly where they were. My question: If entering the minds of your homies to free them from the simulation acted as a beacon for Zinyak, why are the pair suddenly so worried about going through with this? Keep in mind that by this time, you've already rescued five of your homies and each time that didn't send Zinyak to your ship.
11	** It's because Johnny is housed in an extra secure sim since he is a serious threat to the Zin. Now, at this point they do not know that (although the commentators of Murderbowl do mention an "Alien Warlord" that MATCHED Zinyak in all his challenges which forced him to lock the warlord somewhere deep. I do wonder who could that be) Zinyak considered Johnny a prime threat. On the other hand, when Kinzie found him she probably saw higher security around Gat.
12	** The alien warlord is Cid, not Gat.
13	*** And Zinyak wasn't going to go through '''that''' again.
14	** Another possible explanation: in all of the Rescue missions thus far, you do it through a proxy, set up by CID, while still in the Simulation. However, in the case of Johnny Gat's it appears that you have to leave you simulation then enter through the ship. it's possible that the location would have normally been masked due to the Boss's simulation but due to them having to go directly into Gat's without the proxy, there would be no masking signal and therefore it would tip off Zinyak as to where they are.
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16	[[/folder]]
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18	[[folder:Restoring Earth]]
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20	* In the good ending of the game, Zinjai says that Zinyak's promise to restore the Earth was only a half-truth, in that Earth has been completely disintegrated. Fair enough, but afterwards he states that the Zin have perfected time travel, which the Saints use for their own antics. The question is, if the majority of the game's plot is centered around getting revenge on Zinyak for Earth, couldn't the Saints have used the knowledge they gained from the rest of the game to travel back in time, find their missing friends quicker, sabotage the Zin empire, and kill Zinyak before he could destroy the Earth?
21	** Stop spoiling Saints Row V! grin
22	** That, or Kinzie was worried about time paradoxes.
23	** I would like to point out that it would be perfectly in-character for the Saints to have this exchange after they have their fun with time travel:
24	-->'''Pierce''': Hey, boss? Why don't we just use time travel to go back and save the Earth?
25	-->'''Boss''': Oh shit, yeah! We can totally do that!
26	-->'''(the Saints save the Earth)'''
27	[[/folder]]
28
29	[[folder:Time Travel]]
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31	* Along the same lines, if the Saints have access to Time Travel and are willing to use it to Mess with History then why not also use it to Save Aisha in [[VideoGame/SaintsRow2 SR2]]?
32	** Time Paradoxes are serious business.
33	** Johnny Gat has accepted her death, and has moved on. Bringing her back wouldn't bring back what they had together.
34	[[/folder]]
35
36	[[folder:Changing yourself in the simulation]]
37
38	* So my character can change bodies, even genders, while in the simulation, ok fine. One blonde bombshell with Nolan North's voice coming up. But shouldn't my character still have his original body in the real world? I mean, I don't get to take my costume or superpowers out with me. Does the Matrix pod change my real body then? Seems like a needless feature.
39	** StoryAndGameplaySegregation. You could do that in the last two games, but it was never acknowledged that anything ever changed about you. So as far as the plot is concerned, if you changed your appearance in the simulation that was always what you looked like.
40
41	[[/folder]]
42
43	[[folder:Simulated people]]
44
45	* Why are the simulated versions of people from the past treated like they're actually the original people? I don't mind them being treated like people, but what's weird is that they act, and are spoken to, as if they're the real thing. For example, Fun Shaundi is obviously not the real Shaundi, only a virtualized version of her past self, but everyone acts like she really is Shaundi from the past. Another example is people criticizing the actions of Cyrus, Maero, Tanya, and Veteran Child as if their deeds were really their own when, again, they're only programs with the memories of the originals. The President even points this out when fighing Maero: "The real Maero's dead and you're not even his ghost!"
46	** I always figured they know that the simulated people are not real, but they take the chance to vent their anger out on the specific ones that had wronged them in the past/talk with those they admired.
47	** CID calls Fun Shaudi "Fake Shaudi" if you pair them together in the simulation, and Fun Shaudi seems both offended and confused by his meaning of "fake", so I assume they just pretend they're real out of respect/not wanting to open that can of worms of what is real or fake in the simulation anyway.
48	** Alternatively, The Boss just fucked a robot. Chances are, in The Boss' eyes, an AI that's as intelligent as a human is as human as a normal human. Kinzie and Matt would likely agree, and nobody's going to challenge The Boss.
49
50	[[/folder]]
51
52	[[folder:Ben King's and Johnny's simulations]]
53	* How come Tony is in Ben King's nightmare and Warren is in Johnny Gat's nightmare? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Because Warren betrayed King, and Tony was already dead before the coup happened. And plus, Tony shot Gat in the leg and Warren never kidnapped Aisha.
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55
56
57	[[/folder]]
58
59	[[folder:Asha's simulation]]
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61	* What's with the default stock faces for rescuing Asha from her simulation? From a programming explanation, sure it's easier to make an alternative version of something when you know what you're working with. But what's their in-setting explanation? It looked like they were giving you Stock-Face so 'evil-you' could use your normal look, thus preventing Asha getting you mixed up. But then they went and made evil-you just Stock-Face with a beard. What's up with that? All Matt says is 'some specific concerns she has for you'; I don't get how that's supposed to explain anything.
62	** [[HandWave It's not.]] It's all just a [[RuleOfFunny joke]] on those evil twins with beards like evil!Spock from ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries''. At this point the games rely on RuleOfFun and RuleOfFunny for gameplay so some things should just be seen as a part of the fun.
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64	[[/folder]]
65
66	[[folder:Camp David]]
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68	* How the hell did Oleg and Josh get to Camp David? Zinyak blew up the White House about two minutes after Josh made the offer. In fact, Josh and Oleg don't even seem to be aware of the invasion, which again makes no sense.
69	** The White House doesn't get blown up, it gets attacked but is still standing when Zinyak captures you. From the looks of it once you're held prisoner he leaves the Earth alone since he has more or less won already. They're also aware of the invasion, they're just kicking back and passing the time until The Boss comes back and gives them marching orders.
70	** That still makes little sense, as Zinyak wanted to abduct the best and brightest from the planet. Oleg was both and didn't get abducted when he was at the White House.
71	** In-setting wise maybe it's because Oleg is too big to fit in the standard matrix-style pods they have the people in? Though probably gameplay wise he wasn't included as they'd have to scale the out-of-simulation segments bigger in order to have him fit through doors and stuff without glitching or getting stuck and it wasn't worth the time or effort.
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73	[[/folder]]
74
75	[[folder:Zinyak's power]]
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77	* If Zinyak is powerful enough in the simulation to troll you while singing Biz Markie, abduct both Keith David and Kinzie, and more, why can't he just step in at anytime while you're fucking around with the simulation? I mean, wouldn't be as easy as a snap, crackle, pop? Surely Zinyak isn't ''that'' overconfident...?
78	** I'm afraid he literally is ''that'' overconfident. Any genre-savvy antagonist would've snapped Boss's neck during their first encounter were they as strong as Zinyak and had all of his abilities. Kinzie pretty much summed up his character when she said, "Oh look, an alien with a superiority complex. Surprising." For goodness' sake, he's so overconfident that even up to the last few seconds of his life, he think he'll still win over the puny human that is the Boss.
79	** You've never met [[Franchise/{{Fate}} Gilgamesh]], have you?
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81	[[/folder]]
82
83	[[folder:Chosen people]]
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85	* What's the in-story explanation for why Zinyak keeps some people in simulations? Is it just because he likes to study and mess around with them?
86	** It's to break his victims until they lose any will to fight back against him. Once that's done, he conscripts them into the Zin Empire.
87	** He also kept Zach and Bobby, the announcers for the Prof. Genki gameshow series, due to Prof. Genki's Mind over Murder being his favorite show. He kept them due to them being an integral part of it.
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89	[[/folder]]
90
91	[[folder:Choices]]
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93	* What happened to the feature where the player could make choices that affected the game? It's teased at when the player chooses between ending hunger or cancer (I didn't expect that to impact gameplay or anything), but then it's dropped. It was a pretty cool feature in the third game and could have been improved in this one.
94	** I think that was just in to make fun of how extensive it seemed to be in the third game.
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96	[[/folder]]
97
98	[[folder:Sexist]]
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100	* Why is the simulated Cyrus Temple such a blatant sexist, when he showed no sign of it in the third game?
101	** Because Zinyak programmed him like that to screw with Kinzie.
102	** Also, Kinzie's idea of hell is living in the '50s, when she (and other women) pretty much had no power or say-so, Kinzie specifically doesn't have any tech to tinker with, and [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking she has to wear the poodle skirt.]] Making Cyrus a walking epitome of sexism is just the cherry Zinyak put on her shitcake.
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104	[[/folder]]
105
106	[[folder:Picking up homies]]
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108	* When you break Matt and later Gat out, you have to go into the Zin's ship to pick them up. So how does Shaundi, Pierce, King, and Asha just wind up in your ship?
109	** Presumably the same exact way; Volition probably didn't want us to have to go through the 'mech-suit in Zin ship' thing four more times. That would get really old really fast.
110	** Additionally, unlike Miller and Gat, your other homies are probably not in high-security areas, making it piss easy to go and grab them.
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112	[[/folder]]
113
114	[[folder:Finding the ship]]
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116	* Why do the Saints keep saying that they need to find Zinyak's mother ship when they're actually docked ''inside'' the mother ship?
117	** They're not looking for Zinyak's ship, they're looking for him personally. Remember, from what we see of it, the Zin Mothership is a PlanetSpaceship, so finding Zinyak's throneroom, let alone breaching his security, is a pretty big undertaking.
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119	[[/folder]]
120
121	[[folder:Hiding inside the ship]]
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123	* Who in their right mind would take refuge in the mother ship's interior? It's as if they're begging to be spotted.
124	** They're hiding in plain sight in the last place Zinyak would find them. Think of it like Han attaching the MF to the back of the Imperial Star Destroyer in ''The Empire Strikes Back''. It wouldn't even occur to Zinyak that they would be anywhere but far, far away from him. Also, they likely have cloaking devices and other tools with which to hide their location from the radars.
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126	[[/folder]]
127
128	[[folder:Warren Williams]]
129
130	* Why did they go with the model they used for Warren Williams when they already had a much better choice in the game files? The skinny bald black citizen in a suit.
131	** You'll notice that most minor characters use [[YouAllLookFamiliar generic pedestrian models]]. They probably just picked out the first yellow-clad bald black man they had and called him Warren.
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133	[[/folder]]
134
135	[[folder:Ben King's Super Homie model]]
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137	* Ben King's Super Homie image in the simulation looks completely different from the actual guy. I get that this is because of RuleOfFunny and as a ShoutOut to ''Film/TheMatrix'', but why doesn't anyone mention it in the game itself? It would be hard to miss.
138	** Well, this is the same series in which the people ignore the fact that you can look like a completely different person at any time, so Ben King (or is it Keith David?) looking like Morpheus from ''The Matrix'' while in the simulation won't even be noticeable to them.
139	** It's definitely King. Super Keith David is dressed like Lando Calrissian.
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141	[[/folder]]
142
143	[[folder:Brainwashing]]
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145	* So... was Keith David brainwashed to betray the Saints, or did he voluntarily betray them and then get brainwashed when he tried to switch sides again, or what?
146	** Likely voluntary, then he realized that betraying the Boss is a stupid thing to do.
147	** [[ILied Zinyak lied.]] He convinced Keith David that he would restore the Earth (and make Keith David "Super President For Life" of America) if Keith David killed the President. After the President beat some sense into him, he started to tell where they were keeping Kinzie, but Zinyak caught on and banished him to his nightmare: A simulation of ''Film/TheyLive''.
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149	[[/folder]]
150
151	[[folder:Nolan North]]
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153	* If the boss was Nolan North this whole time, when did he have time for his acting career? And why would he have a problem with Kinzie blurting his name?
154	** The boss wasn't Nolan North. It was a joke.
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156	[[/folder]]
157
158	[[folder:Gat's danger level]]
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160	* Why does everyone keep calling Gat the "most dangerous person alive?" It's made empirically, PAINFULLY clear that that title belongs to the Boss, not Gat. Gat is the second most badass.
161	** Gat's got a history of intense, excessive violence and has never really shown much beyond that. While the Boss is a violent person they're still (comparatively) thinking long term and their plans and methods are probably getting the attention rather any death toll.
162	** Any time you are teamed up with Gat in the games, he is ''significantly'' more deadly than the Boss.
163	** Think of it like this: a nuke is more dangerous than the person dropping the nuke, but the nuke has no issue with you. You want to stay on the good side of the guy with the nuke, but you fear the nuke, not the person wielding it. Gat is a nuke, and you're the one wielding him. He just follows orders, and will go where you want him to and kill who you want him to. Thus, they fear Gat, but they know he obeys you, and so know not to anger you. Zinyak made the assumption that The Boss wasn't strong enough without Gat to fight back, a very wrong assumption, but understood that Gat was The Boss' greatest weapon.
164	** Building on that: What Zinyak fails to realize is that Gat is only deadlier than the Boss ''physically.'' When you put everything together, the Boss remains the Killer Alpha of the pack because he is the best coordinator there is. Zinyak's fatal mistake is that he underestimates the Boss' ability to rally the Saints in the face of adversity. Gat himself admits that he is content with the Boss being his Boss because the Boss is the only one who can hold the Saints together.
165	** Most [[ExactWords dangerous]] person alive. Doesn't mean best or most skilled. He's the most dangerous the same way ''WesternAnimation/{{Archer}}'' is the most ''dangerous'' spy, as spying skills go he's crap at it and relies on leaving a mountain of corpses instead. What does Gat tend to do when not actively part of a mission? Hunt down and kill all the cops, gangsters and Zin. His sidequests are specifically titled, "Kill, kill, destroy, kill, who needs subtext?" Nothing stopping Boss from doing this as well but s/he is portrayed as being more level headed, comparatively. Boss' master plan is to do whatever they want to do, whether it be mass murder or going to strip club, and by the third game Boss is less violent which upsets Gat, and while both are caring s/he is actively more benevolent.
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167	[[/folder]]
168
169	[[folder:Power Armor]]
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171	* If they have PowerArmor that grants super powers, why didn't Zinyak send anyone out wearing that to fight the boss when he's on his ship?
172	** Seeing as how they have the technology to give it all powers, including mind control, shrinking, and life steal, why aren't they making use of these to pacify prisoners?
173	** Zinyak underestimates the Boss at every turn of the story. He even thinks he is going to win all the way until the end. It either never occurred to him to try, or he was just being another overconfident Bond villain that is an idiot and doesn't just kill the threats. He does seem to have sadistic fun in "playing" with his victims. It proves to be his undoing as is usual in these kinds of situations.
174	** Forget about why they don't use the PowerArmor themselves, or why they even have these things - why does the PowerArmor have 5-finger gauntlets when the Zin only have 3 fingers on each hand? It's like they are specifically built for human use!
175	** Maybe Zinjai secretly created it for Boss, when seeing that they had a reasonable chance to take down Zinyak. See FridgeBrilliance.
176	** Maybe because it wasn't a Zin invention but instead a trophy from some other conquered world whose people were more human-sized and human-shaped. The Zin just never got around to adapting it for their own use.
177	** Judging by the robotic arms in the changing room, the sounds made as the armor gets put on, and the fact that it's a perfect fit for any body type, a suit is tailor-made whenever anyone needs one. Presumably, a Zin soldier who stepped into the armory would get a three-fingered version.
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179	[[/folder]]
180
181	[[folder:Super-powered enemies]]
182
183	* The Boss gets their powers by collecting code clusters to modify their own abilities. Occasionally, a quest will have you fight an NPC granted similar super powers (either a Zin warden, or an in-universe NPC). Why not just program all enemies to be super powered?
184	** The simulation has finite resources and super powers seem to really mess with the code. Which is just fun to abuse.
185	** This happens visibly -- if you use your powers frequently, or have several powered friends and enemies, the graphics glitch constantly.
186
187	[[/folder]]
188
189	[[folder:Pierce and Jezebel]]
190	* At the end of ''Gat Out Of Hell'', the rest of the Saints meet Jezebel and Shaundi informs the Boss, “Pierce is going to have a frickin' heart attack!” My question is, why would he? He's never been shown to be religious, and considering all the crazy things they'd seen during their time together, he probably would just shrug and ask Jezebel if she wanted to listen to some music. Did I miss something, because why would Shaundi worry that Pierce would panic now after all the weird things he'd witnessed up to that point?
191	[[/folder]]
192
193	[[folder:Restoring Earth Part 2: Christmas Editon]]
194	* Why does Future Shaundi's dialogue and text adventure suggest that the Earth is perfectly fine? In ''Gat Out of Hell'' it's still destroyed, right? Otherwise why have the CosmicRetcon option? Did everyone just decide to "live" in Virtual Steelport or something? But then how did Shaundi lose her arm (and an eye) in real life?
195	[[/folder]]
196
197	[[folder:Missed Opportunity]]
198	* Considering that the game was basically a giant love letter to the rest of the game, filled to the brim with references to the previous three games, I can't help but wonder; was anyone else extremely disappointed that they didn't use the whole "computer simulator" setting as an excuse to bring back Lin and Carlos? Given that their deaths are, on several occasions, implied to weigh heavily on the Boss' conscience, it would've been a great chance for a touching (albeit bittersweet, since they wouldn't be real) reunion. What makes even more disappointing is that Lin was originally going to be in the game as a potential Homie, but was cut from the final game for whatever reason.

Context Headscratchers / SaintsRowIV