Line #91 Headscratchers/Destiny


1	New entries on the bottom.
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3	[[foldercontrol]]
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5	[[folder:Armed Astronauts]]
6	* Why did the astronauts carry assault rifles in the opening cutscene?
7	** So that if they came across something on Mars & it attacked them, they could defend themselves.
8	** It was obvious that the main reason they were there was for the Traveller - they didn't just stumble upon it, it's impossible to miss. It's obviously a powerful, alien [[EldritchAbomination ...thing]], so the guns were probably in case the Traveller turned out to be aggressive towards humanity.
9	** Confirmed; the Grimoire confirms that the weapons they brought along were merely a precaution, and in fact the three personnel (all civilians) were reluctant to do so. They didn't know what they were going to run into. Just that it was on Mars...and it had sent out a signal to them.
10	[[/folder]]
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12	[[folder:Minions of the Darkness]]
13	* Why are all the enemies in the game referred to as Minions of The Darkness? The Hive and The Vex are the only two enemy factions that actively worship Dark-related (The Hive's Oryx and his son Crota) or just the Darkness itself (The Vex at the Black Garden). The other two factions however don't seem to be related to that. I could have sworn that the grimoire cards says something about The Cabal just being a force of the Empire they serve that was sent out here but not only have they been cut off from their Homeworld, they cannot remember WHY they were sent out here. If their Empire is religious and worshiping darkness, their Mars bases do not imply any of it. Then again they are a distant military outpost with more concern for the army of murderous machines and the small bands of unkillable humanoids(as in Guardians) running amok on a planet they currently occupy than worshiping whatever their Rhino-Turtle God Emperor whoever might want them to worship. Its not like setting up temples is a main concern for most modern militaries... The Fallen are supposed to be remnants of some space faring civilization that collapse or something and have turned to scavenging and piracy. I even think one of the cards implied they worship their "Servitor" robots as if they no longer remember how their technology works. To top it all off, they spew light when decapitated. If anything, The Fallen seem like another race uplifted by the Light that got trashed by The Darkness, not a minion of it. In fact, it may be a grim look into the future if the Dead Orbit faction has their way...
14	** "Minions of the Darkness" is more or less just shorthand for "These guys just don't like humanity and want to kill us all." Exactly ''what'' the Darkness really is is not elaborated upon beyond speculation, and "the Darkness" could just be the collective term for various forces that are hostile to mankind. The forces that the Hive and Vex follow could be completely different entities, for example. The way the characters in-universe speak of it, it is entirely possible that the Darkness as they know it is just a general, superstitious term for hostile forces that ended the Golden Age and are still hostile to humans for whatever reason. The Fallen are forces of Darkness because they're hostile to humans, looting human ruins, and have attacked the City in the past. The Cabal are forces of darkness because they're occupying and looting human ruins and actively attacking humans trying to access their old ruins (as well as standing in the way of the Guardian's quest to destroy the Black Garden).
15	** Darkness can be defined as the the partial or total absence of light, so minions of Darkness could simply mean races that are not united under the Traveler.
16	** "Light" and "Dark" are strongly indicated to have deep cultural implications among the people of the City, as they are prety much united in worship and study of the Traveller and the power known as Light which has reshaped mankind's society and keeps them safe. Therefore, "Light" is good, and used in reference to allies and non-hostile forces, while "Dark" is for hostiles. The Reef, for example, is described as "the last place the Light touches" which obviously isn't literal, nor is it in reference to the Traveller's own power. The Reef is simply the farthest place out from Earth where the City knows it has someone who isn't hostile to it. "Darkness" in this setting is used to refer to whatever is hostile to humanity, whether it is desperately violent space pirates like the Fallen, hostile occupiers of once-human territory like the Cabal, or species who outright worship evil, malevolent gods like the Hive and Vex.
17	** Keep in mind the term could also be propaganda. Nothing gets the "Us vs. Them" going like demonizing your enemies, even the ones who are PunchclockVillains.
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19	[[/folder]]
20	[[folder:Aliens Dropping Equipment for Guardians]]
21	* Why exactly do Fallen, Cabal, and Vex troops sometimes drop armor and weapons for Guardians when they die?
22	** They are carrying them as trophies from the humans that were killed during the wars of the Collapse: not in their full-size form as auto rifles, helmets, or what have you, but in a digitized Engram form, the same form in which Guardians can carry 9 of each weapon type at the same time. Fallen and Cabal can't actually work out how to decode them, so to them they are just green, blue, purple, or gold "jewels" with no other meaning- but when they drop one, your Ghost can recognize and decode it most of the time and pick it up instantly (Common engrams). Rare and higher engrams need the Cryptarch to decode, so naturally most enemies can't figure them out on their own. As for the Vex- their technology might actually be capable of decrypting our engrams, which means they are probably taking our weapons to study to see if they can find ways to use our technology against us.
23	** According to Osiris, engrams are another state of matter. Items looted by the enemy are transmuted into an "encrypted" state that they carry on themselves. When you kill them, you grab the engrams they were carrying, which can then be decrypted into a useful state by either your Ghost or a Cryptarch.
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26	[[folder:Hunters and their apparently infinite number of knives]]
27	* Alright, so I've been playing a Hunter for awhile now (since I got the game, in fact) and it's only just now occurred to me that my character is repeatedly breaking the Law of Conservation of Mass. I could (and, in fact, did) buy into the idea that he was using glimmer to just forge knives out of thin air, but considering my cross-character glimmer supply remains utterly unaffected, then we run into the same problem, except that my Hunter can now utterly destroy the City's economy at any time because, rather than simply infinite knives, he's got limitless amounts of glimmer. So what's the story justification for this? What do you guys think?
28	** Space magic, definitely.
29	** Well, that hardly explains anything, but I suppose that's about as good an answer as I could ask for.
30	** More seriously, yes, the Hunter is using his/her Light to create those knives. They appear, get thrown, and disappear, the same way the Hunter can create the Golden Gun or the Arc blade for their Supers.
31	** I think that still qualifies as "space magic". Much better answer, though.
32	[[/folder]]
33	[[folder:Light and what in the world it is]]
34	* It's clear that whatever Light is, it isn't light as we know it. So what it is instead? Some sort of highly manipulable energy? A special kind of matter that Guardians and/or the Traveler can take from another dimension that goes back after use? Both? Something else entirely? Is it explained in the grimoire entries anywhere?
35	** Reality-warping magical energy from the Traveler that Ghosts and Guardians both wield. Beyond that it isn't clear.
36	** There are some indications that Light may be an energy source that the Traveler gifts to whatever species it acts as a benefactor to, and becomes intrinsically locked into their being. Thorn's Grimoire cards indicate that all humans now possess at least a little bit of Light in them in the form of their own living energy. More interestingly is how the Fallen have to resort to Ether to actually survive as they don't have the Traveler to feed them anymore; either the Fallen became so dependent on Light that their biology actually changed to make them physically requiring Light/Ether to survive, or their biology was somehow already dependent on something like Ether to live in the first place. We do know that when the Traveler made contact with humanity, humans suddenly came to live three times longer and became much healthier and more intelligent, so there is some evidence to support the Traveler directly altering humanity via Light.
37	** Alternately, the Grimoire cards for Arc, Solar, and Void damage indicate that Light is as much a part of manipulating and controlling the funadamental forces of the universe. Arc Light involves the forces controlling the bonds between atoms and particles, Solar Light involves th transfer of energy, and Void Light involves the manipulation of possibly dark matter or dark energy.
38	** "Light" in the context of Destiny is a naturally-occurring energy present in all living things of sufficient complexity. For most life forms, Light is just a byproduct of their existence, but the Traveler can strengthen it, and when combined with it's own Light, allow those strengthened by it to manipulate reality. The Hive basically exist by killing those whose Light is strengthened by the Traveler and tithing it to their Worm Gods, and Dredgen Yor explicitly says that all life has Light, it's just very weak in non-Guardians.
39	[[/folder]]
40	[[folder:Hyrda Vex Minds]]
41	* Why does Sekrion's Grimoire Card say that the Hydra chassis is common to Vex Axis Minds? Only three of the Axis Minds use the Hydra chassis, yet eight use the Minotaur chassis.
42	** We know that Axis Minds use more chassis than just Minotaur and Hydra versions. Theosyian uses a Harpy chassis, for example. While ''more'' Axis Minds use Minotaur chassis, there are still a ''lot'' of Minds that employ the Hydra chassis as well.
43	** The Hydras are designed to be similar to a network hub and server - they control what the other Vex are doing such as Goblins constructing and similar. The Minotaur, however, has a distinctly combat-centric role and seems to be more commonly used to protect and control areas of high importance to the Vex such as Time Gates and similar, so these Minds are likely going to require more destructive potential. You're often attacking a lot of areas where the Vex already have a foothold and finding Minotaur Minds there because defense doesn't need so much thinking as construction or conversion. Two of the 3 Minds I remember, the one on Venus converting the planet and the Undying Mind where they're trying to restore the Darkness, require more finesse and processing power for such massive tasks.
44	** What about the Templar and Atheon, then? Seems to me that the Templar's role is exclusively defensive and Atheon's is to continue research and development of ontological weaponry, but the Templar has a Hydra chassis and Atheon is housed in a suped-up Gatelord.
45	** It's probably not a good idea to theorize that particular chassis are exclusive to particular functions. Remember that the majority of the time, any particular Axis Mind is not actually in the shape of the chassis you're fighting. The body they take is exclusively deployed into our world to defend a particular location or objective. Most of the time they exist as data moving through the Vex gate networks. The forms that we see them taking on when we fight them are just whatever the Vex determined were most suitable for the situation that they needed to act in.
46	[[/folder]]
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48	[[folder:Defeating Oryx takes away his ability to speak English?]]
49	* Or whatever language the game set in. Regardless, I find it weird that he's incredibly hammy throughout the main game yet when you face him again in King's Fall, he's back to Hive growling. Why is he no longer able to speak to the Guardians?
50	** Probably doesn't want to speak, rather than being unable. He's furious and on the losing side - ranting and cursing in his own language is just how he funnels his anger. Note how his Echoes don't speak in the language of the Guardians either.
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53	[[folder: Ir Yut's presence at Crota's funeral]]
54	* I can deal with the idea that Ir Yut survived her encounter with the Guardians shortly before their victory over Crota. Probably teleported away from them or else was saved by her own Deathsong. What I can't deal with, however, is that she's present at Crota's funeral ''twice''. What's the deal with that? Are they clones or something? Is Ir Yut merely a name that is applied to all Deathsingers? If that's the case, what about the two generic Deathsingers that are next to Ir Anuk and Ir Halak?
55	** That wasn't Ir Yut. Those were just a pair of unnamed Deathsingers. Both Ir Anuk and Ir Halak are also Deathsingers, so it's clearly a title given to Wizards who have mastered some form of death song.
56	** I don't think you know which ones I'm talking about. I'm well aware that the two Deathsingers participating in Ir Anuk and Ir Halak's chorus are nameless, and as such are utterly inconsequential. But if you go into the room housing the crystal used to summon Crota during Crota's End, you'll find that Ir Yut is patrolling both entrances at once. She's literally in two places at the same time, in addition to having survived the Guardian's assault on Crota's fortress. Either there's some sinister explanation for this that has yet to come to light, or Bungie goofed. Given their previous work on other titles and strong attention to established events therein, I'm betting it's the former.
57	** That's actually just a bug connected to the level architecture from the raid.
58	** Oh. Well that's underwhelming.
59	** Deathsingers are the lowest caste of Hive that can access the Throneworld mechanic, in that they can store their "soul" (for lack of a better term) in a pocket dimension, like a type of [[SoulJar phylactery.]] Killing the Deathsinger in the raid just ''merely inconveniences'' her for a few hours. Remember, that all Deathsingers are Wizards, all Wizards are female, and they are all sisters. You never go into the Deathsinger's Throneworld to finish the job.
60	--->'''The Books of Sorrow:''' From this day forward, Auryx, you and your sisters will each survive death--so long as you aren't killed in your own throne.
61	** Adding to the NightmareFuel of this: In the King's Fall Raid, you kill [[spoiler: Ir Anuk and Ir Halak. At no point do you go to their throneworlds.... yes, Oryx's daughters are still alive after their father is slain, and most likely '''very pissed'''.]]
62	** Not only that, but an even greater threat lurks in the future: [[spoiler: his sisters -- the cunning Savathûn and the brave Xivu Arath -- are very much alive and may even be '''stronger''' than their brother. It's very possible they've even cultivated their own unique powers in isolation... ]]
63	*** [[OhCrap Terrific.]]
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65	[[/folder]]
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67	[[folder: The City and the Tower]]
68	* From what we've seen so far, the Guardians are almost entirely restricted to the Tower instead of the sprawling city-state below. Surely even with its size the Tower can't accommodate all the Guardians' needs (berthing, supply, armory, etc.) Why can't the Guardians go to the City? Shouldn't the populace have a chance to meet their heroes? Or are the revived-from-the-dead Guardians not as hale as they seem to be onscreen/in a mirror?
69	** They do regularly go down into the City. One piece of Titan armor even specifically mentions a bar that's a favorite drinking place for Titans down in the City. You stay in the Tower because that's where the really relevant stuff for the game happens.
70	** ''Videogame/Destiny2'' revealed that the big doorway just outside of the Speaker's chamber on the north side of the Tower opens directly into a huge bazaar and market area, so the Guardians are definitely not being kept separate from the regular people in the City.
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73	[[folder: Science!]]
74	* Why does Master Ives - and possibly ''all'' the cryptarchs - think there's only four states of matter...and that engrams are one of them?
75	** A lot of older scientific knowledge was revised when the Traveler arrived, and the Traveler's abilities and reality-manipulation forced the scientific community to reconsider their classifications of the universe. One thing to consider is that one of those revisions was viewing the universe itself to be a code of sorts, with energy and matter and he natural laws of the universe being the snippets of code that could be used to reshape the universe into a desired state. The Vex were theorized to be doing something like this in the Vault of Glass, effectively hacking the code of the universe to make themselves a law of physics. Engrams are a state of matter waiting to be decoded into something more concrete.
76	** You also have to remember that Master Ives and the Cryptarchs aren't working on ''our'' basis of scientific knowledge; rather, they are working on a post-Collapse working of scientific knowledge, with their education and information being informed less by our versions of classical knowledge and more rebuilding from the Golden Age's understanding of the world, which is radically different when you've got a society whose understanding of the universe is based around studying and manipulating the technologies associated with a literal space god who operates on forces that are all but outright magical in nature. Imagine if our ways of thinking and viewing the world were built on a society who had been made up of people who could use real magic, and you'd see how differently we would view the world. The Cryptarchs' knowledge base is assembled from the remains of the Golden Age's, which is why they view the fourth state of matter as engrams instead of plasma, since Golden Age humanity's fundamental perceptions of how the universe operated were changed by contact with the Traveler.
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79	[[folder: Guardian Armor]]
80	* According to the Born Spark armor set (the starter set for Warlocks), Guardian armor handles life support. Does this refer to survivability in inhospitable environments or that a Guardian can never take their armor off because it (and their Ghost) is the only thing keeping them alive?
81	** It only handles breathing and survival in hostile environments. The Iron Lords: Lady Jolder grimoire card has her donning and securing her armor before a fight, indicating it isn't necessary for day-to-day survival.
82	[[/folder]]
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84	[[folder: Why did no other Guardians get their Light back?]]
85	* If the player character is able to get their Light back in the beginning of the game, what's stopping Zavala, Cayde, and Ikora from getting theirs before the battle to retake the City?
86	** DramaPreservingHandicap? Plus, they probably didn't have the time to go trekking through the forest to find a shard of the Traveler given that; Zavala was stuck on Titan trying to deal with the Hive and organize a counter-offensive, Cayde-6 got himself trapped in the Vex portal network and was in there for Traveler knows how long, and Ikora fell off the DespairEventHorizon regarding her mortality on top of dealing with the Taken on Io. Their biggest concern was using you as the proverbial silver bullet to kill Ghaul while they ran interference for you getting there.
87	** Thinking about it, they didn't get that vision from the Traveler after the player character lost their Light and fell from Ghaul's ship. They wouldn't have known about the Shard of the Traveler in the Black Forest unless they had that vision.
88	** Which raises another question: Why didn't the player character (or, in this case, Ghost, because of the PC's sudden HeroicMime Status in Destiny 2) just tell them where they found their Light.
89	** Further adding to the plot hole, when you first meet Tyra Karn at The Farm, she states that she also saw the vision of The Shard. So either The Vanguard also saw it but chose to ignore it or the player and Tyra are somehow special.
90	** There's only enough Light in the Shard to fuel one Guardian. The player is the first one there, so they get it. Ghost even says as much when you get your subclasses.
91	** Some of the scannables also mention that not all of the power can actually be used. One fragment you can find has Ghost mention that there is power in the small shards, but it's not the kind of Light that can empower a Guardian. The general feeling is that the shard we find in the EDZ is a damaged piece of the Traveler and the player's Guardian is salvaging what bits of it that they can to empower them, with the rest being useless, and there's only enough usable Light for one person. This is backed up by an adventure on Io where Ashir Mir attempts to create synthetic Light, but while what he creates can be used by the player Guardian to empower their abilities, it cannot be used to make or restore other Guardians.

Context Headscratchers / Destiny