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* BrokenBase: Don't expect a fast or easy argument between whether the book or the movie is better. Both are quite well known and well regarded in spite of some notable plot and character differences


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* EnsembleDarkhorse: Jones among the American sailors, Captain Borodin among the Russian defectors and Dr. Petrov among the non-defecting Russians.
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*** This is partially justified: The novel goes into considerable detail on Ramius' life and the events that lead up to his decision to defect. His wife dying from a botched surgery by a drunk surgeon was just one of several unjust events he had been witness to or experienced. Ultimately, Ramius blamed the State for his wife's death. The final straw came at her funeral. The state had robbed him of being unable to pray for her soul at her funeral and the comfort--or even just the illusion--that he may be reunited with her in the afterlife.

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*** This is partially justified: The novel goes into considerable detail on Ramius' life and the events that lead up to his decision to defect. His wife dying from a botched surgery by a drunk surgeon was surgeon--who worked for a clinic that served the Party Elite and not the military--was just one of several unjust events he had been witness to or experienced. Ultimately, Ramius blamed the State for his wife's death. The final straw came at her funeral. The state had robbed him of being unable to pray for her soul at her funeral and the comfort--or even just the illusion--that he may be reunited with her in the afterlife.
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*** This is partially justified: The novel goes into considerable detail on Ramius' life and the events that lead up to his decision to defect. The Surgeon worked for a clinic that only served the Party Elite and not the military. Ultimately, Ramius blamed the State for his wife's death. The final straw, after a lifetime of other events, was being unable to pray for her soul at her funeral and robbed of the comfort--or even just the illusion--that he may be reunited with her in the afterlife.

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*** This is partially justified: The novel goes into considerable detail on Ramius' life and the events that lead up to his decision to defect. The Surgeon worked for His wife dying from a clinic that only served the Party Elite and not the military.botched surgery by a drunk surgeon was just one of several unjust events he had been witness to or experienced. Ultimately, Ramius blamed the State for his wife's death. The final straw, after a lifetime straw came at her funeral. The state had robbed him of other events, was being unable to pray for her soul at her funeral and robbed of the comfort--or even just the illusion--that he may be reunited with her in the afterlife.
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*** This is partially justified: The novel goes into considerable detail on Ramius' life and the events that lead up to his decision to defect. The Surgeon worked for a clinic that only served the party elite. Ramius blamed the State for his wife's death. The final straw after a life time of other events was being unable to pray for her soul at her funeral and the comfort--or even just the illusion--that he may be reunited with her in the afterlife.

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*** This is partially justified: The novel goes into considerable detail on Ramius' life and the events that lead up to his decision to defect. The Surgeon worked for a clinic that only served the party elite. Party Elite and not the military. Ultimately, Ramius blamed the State for his wife's death. The final straw straw, after a life time lifetime of other events events, was being unable to pray for her soul at her funeral and robbed of the comfort--or even just the illusion--that he may be reunited with her in the afterlife.
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Shortened and tightened this section up.


*** This is partially justified: The novel goes into considerable detail on Ramius' life and the events that lead up to his decision to defect. Notably, the surgeon worked for the Fourth Department clinic, which only serves the Party Elite and not the military. Also, the surgeon being drunk was just one of several errors and acts of incompetence by others that led to her death. Ultimately, Ramius blamed the State for his wife's death. The final straw was being unable to pray for her soul at her funeral and the comfort--or even just the illusion--that he may be reunited with her in the afterlife.

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*** This is partially justified: The novel goes into considerable detail on Ramius' life and the events that lead up to his decision to defect. Notably, the surgeon The Surgeon worked for the Fourth Department clinic, which a clinic that only serves served the Party Elite and not the military. Also, the surgeon being drunk was just one of several errors and acts of incompetence by others that led to her death. Ultimately, party elite. Ramius blamed the State for his wife's death. The final straw after a life time of other events was being unable to pray for her soul at her funeral and the comfort--or even just the illusion--that he may be reunited with her in the afterlife.

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*** This is partially justified: The novel goes into considerable detail on Ramius' life and the events that lead up to his decision to defect. Notably, the surgeon worked for the Fourth Department clinic, which only serves the Party Elite and not the military. Also, the surgeon being drunk was just one of several errors and acts of incompetence by others that led to her death. Ultimately, Ramius blamed the State for his wife's death. The final straw was being unable to pray for her soul at her funeral and the comfort--or even just the illusion--that he may be reunited with her in the afterlife.



*** Partially acknowledged in-universe: while the ''Ethan Allen'' provided some debris and a SONAR signature from the explosion, the main part of the deception involved a depth gauge removed from ''Red October'' and dumped in the debris field, bearing its pennant number and other identifying marks.

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*** Partially acknowledged in-universe: while the ''Ethan Allen'' provided some debris and a SONAR signature from the explosion, the main part of the deception involved a depth gauge removed from ''Red October'' and dumped in the debris field, field along with an SS-20 Seahawk missile, bearing its pennant number their serial numbers and other identifying marks. marks. The location was also just a few hundred miles off the US Eastern Coast in deep water which makes it difficult for the Russians to make any attempt to salvage the wreckage themselves.
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*** Partially acknowledged in-universe: while the ''Ethan Allen'' provided some debris and a SONAR signature from the explosion, the main part of the deception involved a depth gauge removed from the Red October and dumped in the debris field, bearing its pennant number and other identifying mars.

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*** Partially acknowledged in-universe: while the ''Ethan Allen'' provided some debris and a SONAR signature from the explosion, the main part of the deception involved a depth gauge removed from the Red October ''Red October'' and dumped in the debris field, bearing its pennant number and other identifying mars.marks.
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*** Partially acknowledged in-universe: while the ''Ethan Allen'' provided some debris and a SONAR signature from the explosion, the main part of the deception involved a depth gauge removed from the Red October and dumped in the debris field, bearing its pennant number and other identifying mars.
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** Note: Ramius wasn't responsible for the torpedo. That was Captain Mancuso, commanding an unfamiliar Soviet missile sub with what couldn't even be described as a skeleton crew made up of a handful of Soviet officers and a smaller handful of American sailors, with the timely help of his first officer, Lt. Commander Thompson, using ''Dallas'' to DrawAggro on the torpedo before using countermeasures and evasive maneuvers to evade it themselves.
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* DesignatedVillain: Strictly speaking, none of the antagonists (Putin, Loginov, or Tupolev) do anything particularly villainous apart from being barriers between the heroes and their goal of seizing a Soviet warship and her payload of thermonuclear warheads.
** Putin doesn't even get the opportunity to choose before he is killed in cold blood before he can learn of the plot. [[DirtyBusiness Ramius goes so far as to apologize to him in his dying moments.]]
** Loginov is doing his duty to try and stop the ''Red October's'' disloyal officers from defecting to the United States after Ramius has murdered Putin.
** Tupolev may not even know that Ramius is trying to defect, and most likely has been told he is going to [[GeneralRipper attempt a rogue strike]], and is thus likely racing to [[HeroOfAnotherStory prevent World War III and millions of needless deaths.]]
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Approved by the thread.

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* MagnificentBastard: [[TheAce Captain Marko Ramius]] is a genius Soviet naval tactician known as the "[[OldMaster Vilnius Schoolmaster]]" for having trained many USSR naval officers. Becoming disillusioned with the Soviet cause after the death of his wife, Ramius uses the launch of the Red October prototype nuclear submarine and its silent "caterpillar drive" to [[DefectorFromCommieLand defect to the United States]] with the rest of his officer staff after murdering ThePoliticalOfficer by [[MakeItLookLikeAnAccident making it look an accident]] and assuring the crew about the "secret nature" of their mission. Ramius' tactical insight allows him to evade both the Soviet and US navies until he can make contact with Jack Ryan, a CIA analyst who managed to decipher Ramius' real intentions. After evacuating the crew by faking a reactor meltdown and disposing of a GRU stowaway, Ramius manages to turn an enemy Soviet submarine's torpedo against itself and successfully defects with the Red October in tow.

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** Also, the missiles are all-too-obviously animated. Which just goes to show that even Creator/IndustrialLightAndMagic can have an off day.

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** Also, the missiles torpedoes are all-too-obviously animated. Which just goes to show that even Creator/IndustrialLightAndMagic can have an off day.day.
* TearJerker: [[spoiler: "I would have liked to have seen Montana."]]
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The intended implication wasn't that the Red October had a reactor meltdown; its that it was scuttled by the officers


** The novel's scheme of blowing up the USS ''Ethan Allen'' to confuse the Russians into believing that the Red October had sunk is ridiculous because the ''Ethan Allen'' class of missile submarine displaced in the range of 6000 tons, a full 1000 tons less than a ''Los Angeles''-class sub like the ''Dallas'' and a ''fifth'' of ''Red October's'' whopping 30,000+ ton mass. Unless the Soviets were brain-dead they'd notice there was far too little debris for such a large submarine. And further, a submarine reactor wouldn't cause an ''explosion'', it'd cause a ''meltdown'' - even Chernobyl simply melted down instead of blowing up. Even real-life submarine disasters involving missile/torpedo explosions, such as the ''Kursk'' tragedy, leave the hull in one or more large, very recognizable sections instead of reducing it to scrap metal.

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** The novel's scheme of blowing up the USS ''Ethan Allen'' to confuse the Russians into believing that the Red October had sunk is ridiculous because the ''Ethan Allen'' class of missile submarine displaced in the range of 6000 tons, a full 1000 tons less than a ''Los Angeles''-class sub like the ''Dallas'' and a ''fifth'' of ''Red October's'' whopping 30,000+ ton mass. Unless the Soviets were brain-dead they'd notice there was far too little debris for such a large submarine. And further, a submarine reactor wouldn't cause an ''explosion'', it'd cause a ''meltdown'' - even Chernobyl simply melted down instead of blowing up. Even real-life submarine disasters involving missile/torpedo explosions, such as the ''Kursk'' tragedy, leave the hull in one or more large, very recognizable sections instead of reducing it to scrap metal.
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** It can be funny to see Creator/StellanSkarsgard and Creator/TimCurry act together here as Curry had just starred as Pennywise in ''Film/It1990'' and Skarsgard's son [[Creator/BillSkarsgard Bill]], who would later play Pennywise in ''Film/It2017'', was just born. Even funnier is that, in the film and book, Pennywise comes out of hiding every twenty-seven years and Bill Skarsgard played the role exactly twenty-seven years later.

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** It can be funny to see Creator/StellanSkarsgard and Creator/TimCurry act together here as Curry had just starred as Pennywise in ''Film/It1990'' and Skarsgard's son [[Creator/BillSkarsgard Bill]], who would later play Pennywise in ''Film/It2017'', was just born. Even funnier is that, in the film and book, Pennywise comes out of hiding every twenty-seven years and Bill Skarsgard played the role exactly twenty-seven years later. Additionally, Skarsgård's character would find himself at the bottom of the sea, just like [[Franchise/PiratesOfTheCaribbean Bootstrap]].

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* OneSceneWonder: Rear Admiral Painter (played by actor and Tennessee senator Fred Thompson) has a small, but very memorable role in the film.

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* OneSceneWonder: OneSceneWonder:
**
Rear Admiral Painter (played by actor and Tennessee senator Fred Thompson) has a small, but very memorable role in the film.film.
** Jeffrey Jones has a single scene as Tyler, who is a subtle MrExposition for BackStory of the Caterpillar tech.
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* HarsherInHindsight: The fate of ''Konovalov'' in the book is very close to that of ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster Kursk]]'', right up to the rescue buoy being stuck.
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** It can be funny to see Stellan Skarsgard and Creator/TimCurry act together here as Curry had just starred as Pennywise in ''Film/It1990'' and Skarsgard's son [[Creator/BillSkarsgard Bill]], who would later play Pennywise in ''Film/It2017'', was just born. Even funnier is that, in the film and book, Pennywise comes out of hiding every twenty-seven years and Bill Skarsgard played the role exactly twenty-seven years later.

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** It can be funny to see Stellan Skarsgard Creator/StellanSkarsgard and Creator/TimCurry act together here as Curry had just starred as Pennywise in ''Film/It1990'' and Skarsgard's son [[Creator/BillSkarsgard Bill]], who would later play Pennywise in ''Film/It2017'', was just born. Even funnier is that, in the film and book, Pennywise comes out of hiding every twenty-seven years and Bill Skarsgard played the role exactly twenty-seven years later.
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** It can be funny to see Stellan Skarsgard and Tim Curry act together here as Curry had just starred as Pennywise in ''Film/It1990'' and Skarsgard's son Bill, who would later play Pennywise in ''Film/It2017'', was just born. Even funnier is that, in the film and book, Pennywise comes out of hiding every twenty-seven years and Bill Skarsgard played the role exactly twenty-seven years later.

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** It can be funny to see Stellan Skarsgard and Tim Curry Creator/TimCurry act together here as Curry had just starred as Pennywise in ''Film/It1990'' and Skarsgard's son Bill, [[Creator/BillSkarsgard Bill]], who would later play Pennywise in ''Film/It2017'', was just born. Even funnier is that, in the film and book, Pennywise comes out of hiding every twenty-seven years and Bill Skarsgard played the role exactly twenty-seven years later.
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** Again from the novel - a major Russian naval base would have more than one surgeon on duty, and given the rivalry between the military and the Communist party, a drunk surgeon using his party connections to attempt to get away from a court-martial offense would have created one ''hell'' of an uproar and would be brought to justice really quickly. If Ramius had lost his wife to a drunk surgeon who was the son of a party official in the real USSR, he would have had justice served pretty quickly and be backed up by his superiors all the way to the highest ranks.

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** Again from the novel - a major Russian naval base would have more than one surgeon on duty, and given the rivalry between the military and the Communist party, a drunk surgeon using his party connections to attempt to get away from a court-martial offense would have created one ''hell'' of an uproar and would be brought to justice really quickly. harshly punished for it. If Ramius had lost his wife to a drunk surgeon who was the son of a party official in the real USSR, he would have had justice served his retribution pretty quickly and be backed up by his superiors all the way to the highest ranks.



* {{Narm}}: To some native Russian speakers, Creator/SeanConnery speaking Russian in his trademark Scottish accent is ''hilarious''. It's kind of justified in that Connery's character is Lithuanian, so Russian wouldn't be his native language to begin with. Then again, he really ought to to have a more Baltic-sounding accent. Also, Creator/AlecBaldwin's American accent when speaking Russian is so thick as to be unintelligible.

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* {{Narm}}: To some native Russian speakers, Creator/SeanConnery speaking Russian in his trademark Scottish accent is ''hilarious''. It's kind of justified in that Connery's character is Lithuanian, so Russian wouldn't be his native language to begin with. Then again, he really ought to to have Of course, that still doesn't make sense why a more Baltic-sounding accent.person from a Baltic country would sound Scottish. Also, Creator/AlecBaldwin's American accent when speaking Russian is so thick as to be unintelligible.
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* {{Narm}}: To some native Russian speakers, Creator/SeanConnery speaking Russian in his trademark Scottish accent is ''hilarious''. Also, Creator/AlecBaldwin's American accent when speaking Russian is so thick as to be unintelligible.

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* {{Narm}}: To some native Russian speakers, Creator/SeanConnery speaking Russian in his trademark Scottish accent is ''hilarious''. It's kind of justified in that Connery's character is Lithuanian, so Russian wouldn't be his native language to begin with. Then again, he really ought to to have a more Baltic-sounding accent. Also, Creator/AlecBaldwin's American accent when speaking Russian is so thick as to be unintelligible.

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* Critical Research Failure: The novel has a whole bunch of critical research failures regarding the internal layout of the Typhoon class missile submarine that, while understandable, also betrays a serious case of ArtMajorPhysics (a submarine with a pressure hull that flattened would have an ''enormously'' compromised diving depth), which also extends to the properties of the impellers used in the Caterpillar Drive[[note]]nowhere nearly as exotic as depicted; British Trafalgar-class submarines new in 1984 beginning from HMS ''Torbay'' onwards used Jet Pumps, which are a form of impeller and needed no special laws of hydrodynamics[[/note]] and the ultra-high-pressure reactor plant used in the Alfa-class submarines [[note]]all made up, and water wouldn't function as a working fluid in such conditions - incidentally, Clancy dismisses a liquid metal reactor when that's what the real Alfa(Lyra/Project 705) class had![[/note]]. The movie averts this with the Caterpillar Drive being turned into a magnetohydrodynamic propulsion system, which is more plausible and which have actually been built, but which are severely speed-restricted and wouldn't be worth using even on a missile submarine.

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* Critical Research Failure: CriticalResearchFailure: Overlaps with outright DanBrowned in some instances:
**
The novel has a whole bunch of critical research failures regarding the internal layout of the Typhoon class missile submarine that, while understandable, also betrays a serious case of ArtMajorPhysics (a submarine with a pressure hull that flattened would have an ''enormously'' compromised diving depth), which also extends to the properties of the impellers used in the Caterpillar Drive[[note]]nowhere nearly as exotic as depicted; British Trafalgar-class submarines new in 1984 beginning from HMS ''Torbay'' onwards used Jet Pumps, which are a form of impeller and needed no special laws of hydrodynamics[[/note]] and the ultra-high-pressure reactor plant used in the Alfa-class submarines [[note]]all made up, and water wouldn't function as a working fluid in such conditions - incidentally, Clancy dismisses a liquid metal reactor when that's what the real Alfa(Lyra/Project 705) class had![[/note]]. The movie averts this with the Caterpillar Drive being turned into a magnetohydrodynamic propulsion system, which is more plausible and which have actually been built, but which are severely speed-restricted and wouldn't be worth using even on a missile submarine. submarine.
** The novel has Jack give the president and Jeffrey Pelt a run-down on how Soviet missile submarines differ from American ones - except that it's absolutely ''wrong''. Soviet missile submarines from the Project 667 ("Yankee" and "Delta") classes were configured nearly identically to their American counterparts. Only the ''Typhoons'' had the differences in question.


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** The novel's scheme of blowing up the USS ''Ethan Allen'' to confuse the Russians into believing that the Red October had sunk is ridiculous because the ''Ethan Allen'' class of missile submarine displaced in the range of 6000 tons, a full 1000 tons less than a ''Los Angeles''-class sub like the ''Dallas'' and a ''fifth'' of ''Red October's'' whopping 30,000+ ton mass. Unless the Soviets were brain-dead they'd notice there was far too little debris for such a large submarine. And further, a submarine reactor wouldn't cause an ''explosion'', it'd cause a ''meltdown'' - even Chernobyl simply melted down instead of blowing up. Even real-life submarine disasters involving missile/torpedo explosions, such as the ''Kursk'' tragedy, leave the hull in one or more large, very recognizable sections instead of reducing it to scrap metal.
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* Critical Research Failure: The novel has a whole bunch of critical research failures regarding the internal layout of the Typhoon class missile submarine that, while understandable, also betrays a serious case of ArtMajorPhysics (a submarine with a pressure hull that flattened would have an ''enormously'' compromised diving depth), which also extends to the properties of the impellers used in the Caterpillar Drive[[note]]nowhere nearly as exotic as depicted; British Trafalgar-class submarines new in 1984 beginning from HMS ''Torbay'' onwards used Jet Pumps, which are a form of impeller and needed no special laws of hydrodynamics[[/note]] and the ultra-high-pressure reactor plant used in the Alfa-class submarines [[note]]all made up, and water wouldn't function as a working fluid in such conditions - incidentally, Clancy dismisses a liquid metal reactor when that's what the real Alfa(Lyra/Project 705) class had![[/note]]. The movie averts this with the Caterpillar Drive being turned into a magnetohydrodynamic propulsion system, which is more plausible and which have actually been built, but which are severely speed-restricted and wouldn't be worth using even on a missile submarine.
** Again from the novel - a major Russian naval base would have more than one surgeon on duty, and given the rivalry between the military and the Communist party, a drunk surgeon using his party connections to attempt to get away from a court-martial offense would have created one ''hell'' of an uproar and would be brought to justice really quickly. If Ramius had lost his wife to a drunk surgeon who was the son of a party official in the real USSR, he would have had justice served pretty quickly and be backed up by his superiors all the way to the highest ranks.

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----



** The Soviet [[ThePoliticalOfficer political officer]] who is named ''[[UsefulNotes/VladimirPutin Putin]]''.
*** Who bears a striking resemblance to ol' Vlad
** [[spoiler: [[{{Retirony}} Borodin's last words, "I would like to have seen Montana."]]]] A few movies later, [[Film/JurassicPark he did.]]
*** And 28 years later, he still wanted to have [[Film/PeterRabbit a rabbit]] cooked.

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** The Soviet [[ThePoliticalOfficer political officer]] who is named ''[[UsefulNotes/VladimirPutin Putin]]''.
***
Putin]]''. Who bears a striking resemblance to ol' Vlad
Vlad.
** [[spoiler: [[{{Retirony}} Borodin's last words, "I would like to have seen Montana."]]]] A few movies later, [[Film/JurassicPark he did.]]
***
did]]. And 28 years later, he still wanted to have [[Film/PeterRabbit a rabbit]] cooked.
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*** And 28 years later, he still wanted to have [[Film/PeterRabbit a rabbit]] cooked.
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** It can be funny to see Stellan Skarsgard and Tim Curry act together here as Curry had just starred as Pennywise in ''Film/It1990'' and Skarsgard's son Bill, who would later play Pennywise in ''Film/It2017'', was just born. Even funnier is that, in the film and book, Pennywise comes out of hiding every twenty-seven years and Bill Skarsgard played the role exactly twenty-seven years later.
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* AndYouThoughtItWouldFail: Creator/TomClancy really struggled to get the book published, dealing with massive publisher disinterest. He finally tried taking it to the Naval Institute Press, for whom he had previously written a number of nonfiction articles, and they agreed to print it as their first-ever foray into fiction. The novel turned into a surprise bestseller after President UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan read it and spoke in favor of it.
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* CommonKnowledge: "Sean Connery plays a Russian sub commander". Except Ramius is Lithuanian, which is a key plot point in his defection.

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* CommonKnowledge: "Sean Connery plays a Russian sub commander". Except Ramius is Lithuanian, which is a key plot point in his defection. So, he is a commander of a Russian sub, but not a Russian commander of a Russian sub. (It's like a "large animal hospital" - is it a large hospital, or a hospital for animals that are large?)
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*** Who bears a striking resemblance to ol' Vlad

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* FirstInstallmentWins: Widely regarded as the best novel -and film- of the Ryan-verse, if not Clancy's best (in contest with his second published novel, ''Literature/RedStormRising'')

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* FirstInstallmentWins: Widely regarded as the best novel -and film- of the Ryan-verse, if not Clancy's Creator/TomClancy's best (in contest with his second published novel, ''Literature/RedStormRising'')



* {{Narm}}: To some native Russian speakers, Sean Connery speaking Russian in his trademark Scottish accent is ''hilarious''. Also, Alec Baldwin's American accent when speaking Russian is so thick as to be unintelligible.

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* {{Narm}}: To some native Russian speakers, Sean Connery Creator/SeanConnery speaking Russian in his trademark Scottish accent is ''hilarious''. Also, Alec Baldwin's Creator/AlecBaldwin's American accent when speaking Russian is so thick as to be unintelligible.



* TechnologyMarchesOn. Inverted. The crew of the Red October is shown to be using flat-screen and touchscreen displays (note the absence of valves and keyboards) that are more than 30-years more advanced than almost all of what was possible when the film was made, and some of which is barely possible today (2016).
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* OneSceneOnder: Rear Admiral Painter (played by actor and Tennessee senator Fred Thompson) has a small, but very memorable role in the film.

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* OneSceneOnder: OneSceneWonder: Rear Admiral Painter (played by actor and Tennessee senator Fred Thompson) has a small, but very memorable role in the film.

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