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Alternately, though, it's possible Frank didn't figure it out at all. Given the way the season 2 finale scene is filmed and cut, it's also possible that Frank didn't have any reasonable view or amount of time to really see Matt's face. He's much farther away than it initially appears since he's on a roof across the street, the area is dark, and Matt gives no more than a quick glance over his shoulder. The reactions that people refer to earlier in the season where they think Frank is recognizing Matt, those could just be Frank acting annoyed with the whole lawyer/court process thing. To Frank, Matt is a totally typical lawyer aside from being blind which means he doesn't think very highly of him, and the way Matt tries to keep up the act of unfamiliarity probably comes off smug and irritating for Frank.
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Alternately, though, it's possible Frank didn't figure it out at all. Given the way the season 2 finale scene is filmed and cut, it's also possible that Frank didn't have any reasonable view or amount of time to really see Matt's face. He's much farther away than it initially appears since he's on a roof across the street, the area is dark, and Matt gives no more than a quick glance over his shoulder. The reactions that people refer to earlier in the season where they think Frank is recognizing Matt, those could just be Frank acting annoyed with the whole lawyer/court process thing. To Frank, Matt is a totally typical lawyer aside from being blind which means he doesn't think very highly of him, and the way Matt tries to keep up the act of unfamiliarity probably comes off as smug and irritating for Frank.
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[[WMG:Karen will book-end season 1]]
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[[WMG:Karen will book-end season 1]]3]]
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However, given the Gladiator teases the show has given us with the sawblades the first time Matt met Melvin, and the armor Melvin was wearing in season 2 when Matt picked up his new helmet, it does seem that Fisk's release might cause his mental problems to resurface again, just like in the comics, especially if Fisk needs a fake Daredevil costume created.
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However, given the Gladiator teases the show has given us with the sawblades the first time Matt met Melvin, and the armor Melvin was wearing in season 2 when Matt picked up his new helmet, it does seem that Fisk's release might cause his mental problems to resurface again, just like in the comics, especially if Fisk needs a fake Daredevil costume created.
created, especially after a leaked photo surfaced that appeared to depict Matt hiding from a fake Daredevil in the ''Bulletin'' newsroom.
[[WMG:Marci will learn the truth about Matt being Daredevil prior to the start of the season]]
We really don’t know how Marci and Matt regard each other. And on the outside, Marci does comes across as a little prickly and insensitive (like her malicious misnaming of Elena as "Mrs. Carnitas"). However considering that she really does love and admire Foggy, and it doesn't seem like Foggy and Karen were talking at all during the events of ''The Punisher'' or ''Luke Cage'' season 2, Marci was probably his rock during that whole year he was grieving. It's really hard to tell what kind of a person Marci Stahl is on the inside since she's barely been explored beyond a surface level.
We know she’s a top notch lawyer. We know she likes to be noticed and complimented. We know she’s very committed to her career. We know she has expensive taste, and that teasing Foggy is her favorite pastime ("Look at you still playing lawyer!"). Yet at the same time, Marci has come through for Foggy on more than one occasion. Foggy does have a way with getting Marci to see things neutral, like when he persuaded her to help him and Matt bring down Fisk, putting her career on the line in the process. The fact that she even did that demonstrates the level of affection and loyalty she has for Foggy. Another example is that she brought Foggy a dressed-up teddy bear when she visited him in the hospital after he got shot.
And if anyone knows Foggy as good as Matt does, it's Marci. Even if Foggy tries his best to hide his grief from her, there's no way she doesn't notice enough signs to put two and two together and deduce something happened to Matt, and ask him about it. We don't know if Foggy and Karen invented any cover stories for Matt's disappearance after Midland Circle. So it's entirely possible that Foggy might tell Marci about Matt’s secret in a moment of vulnerability. Then again, I can't see a reason that he would presume to think Matt's still out there and coming back, so there is no secret to really keep at this point unless he's really holding out some unbelievable hope against hope.
Now Marci used to be one of the sharks when she was at Landman & Zack. If Foggy tells her the truth about Matt, that he's Daredevil, that he got crushed under a building, etc. most likely she’d either be slightly unsure or completely understanding, insisting that she knew the entire time.
And there's certainly enough details that Marci might easily figure out Matt is Daredevil on her own: Daredevil has disappeared for a second time, under a crumbling building, at the same time as Matt Murdock, who the NYPD believe was taken with Luke and Jessica after they busted out of the precinct. Luke and Jessica, who were also involved with the crumbling of that same building. And Foggy was also involved and he and Karen were put up in the 29th Precinct for the duration of whatever the hell was happening.
It's hard to envision what Foggy and Marci's relationship has been like since Matt’s temporary departure. When Foggy appeared in ''Luke Cage'' season 2, he was acting mostly business-like and making no mentions of his personal life when talking to Luke. But I imagine there are so many reasons why Marci would always be there for Foggy when he needed her. And if that means helping to protect Matt's secret, I don’t see why she wouldn’t do it for him.
[[WMG:Marci will learn the truth about Matt being Daredevil prior to the start of the season]]
We really don’t know how Marci and Matt regard each other. And on the outside, Marci does comes across as a little prickly and insensitive (like her malicious misnaming of Elena as "Mrs. Carnitas"). However considering that she really does love and admire Foggy, and it doesn't seem like Foggy and Karen were talking at all during the events of ''The Punisher'' or ''Luke Cage'' season 2, Marci was probably his rock during that whole year he was grieving. It's really hard to tell what kind of a person Marci Stahl is on the inside since she's barely been explored beyond a surface level.
We know she’s a top notch lawyer. We know she likes to be noticed and complimented. We know she’s very committed to her career. We know she has expensive taste, and that teasing Foggy is her favorite pastime ("Look at you still playing lawyer!"). Yet at the same time, Marci has come through for Foggy on more than one occasion. Foggy does have a way with getting Marci to see things neutral, like when he persuaded her to help him and Matt bring down Fisk, putting her career on the line in the process. The fact that she even did that demonstrates the level of affection and loyalty she has for Foggy. Another example is that she brought Foggy a dressed-up teddy bear when she visited him in the hospital after he got shot.
And if anyone knows Foggy as good as Matt does, it's Marci. Even if Foggy tries his best to hide his grief from her, there's no way she doesn't notice enough signs to put two and two together and deduce something happened to Matt, and ask him about it. We don't know if Foggy and Karen invented any cover stories for Matt's disappearance after Midland Circle. So it's entirely possible that Foggy might tell Marci about Matt’s secret in a moment of vulnerability. Then again, I can't see a reason that he would presume to think Matt's still out there and coming back, so there is no secret to really keep at this point unless he's really holding out some unbelievable hope against hope.
Now Marci used to be one of the sharks when she was at Landman & Zack. If Foggy tells her the truth about Matt, that he's Daredevil, that he got crushed under a building, etc. most likely she’d either be slightly unsure or completely understanding, insisting that she knew the entire time.
And there's certainly enough details that Marci might easily figure out Matt is Daredevil on her own: Daredevil has disappeared for a second time, under a crumbling building, at the same time as Matt Murdock, who the NYPD believe was taken with Luke and Jessica after they busted out of the precinct. Luke and Jessica, who were also involved with the crumbling of that same building. And Foggy was also involved and he and Karen were put up in the 29th Precinct for the duration of whatever the hell was happening.
It's hard to envision what Foggy and Marci's relationship has been like since Matt’s temporary departure. When Foggy appeared in ''Luke Cage'' season 2, he was acting mostly business-like and making no mentions of his personal life when talking to Luke. But I imagine there are so many reasons why Marci would always be there for Foggy when he needed her. And if that means helping to protect Matt's secret, I don’t see why she wouldn’t do it for him.
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[[WMG:Shot-to-shot moments from the ''Born Again'' comic that they could adapt.]]
* Matt finding his suit in the ruins of his home, with tears in his eyes.
* Matt in a fetal position in his bed, representing Jesus.
* Matt finding his suit in the ruins of his home, with tears in his eyes.
* Matt in a fetal position in his bed, representing Jesus.
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Alternately, though, it's possible Frank didn't figure it out at all. Given the way the season 2 finale scene is filmed and cut, it's also possible that Frank didn't have any reasonable view or amount of time to really see Matt's face. He's much farther away than it initially appears since he's on a roof across the street, the area is dark, and Matt gives no more than a quick glance over his shoulder. The reactions that people refer to earlier in the season where they think Frank is recognizing Matt, those could just be Frank acting annoyed with the whole lawyer/court process thing. To Frank, Matt is a totally typical lawyer aside from being blind which means he doesn't think very highly of him, and the way Matt tries to keep up the act of unfamiliarity probably comes off smug and irritating for Frank.
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* Unlikely. Not that there’s anything wrong with Bullseye, but he’s basically Daredevil's version of the Joker. Everyone expects him to be in everything, he is massively over-used, and as a result, he gets boring. After two Bullseye-less seasons, it'd be great to keep the streak up. There are a ton of excellent Daredevil villains who have never been adapted to live action. Villains who would be fresh and new. Mr. Fear, for instance, would be an incredible fit for this show. The Jester could be super cool. Give us a good Typhoid Mary adaptation, or Ikari, or Lady Bullseye, or Death Stalker. Melvin Potter to go full-on Gladiator. And if they have to go with Bullseye, do the early variant who left business cards at his crime scenes, and shot Matt out of a giant crossbow, and hallucinated Daredevil everywhere.\\
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* Unlikely. Not that there’s anything wrong with Bullseye, but he’s basically Daredevil's version of the Joker. Everyone expects him to be in everything, he is massively over-used, and as a result, he gets boring. After two Bullseye-less seasons, it'd be great to keep the streak up. There are a ton of excellent Daredevil villains who have never been adapted to live action. Villains who would be fresh and new. Mr. Fear, for instance, would be an incredible fit for this show. The Jester could be super cool. Give us a good Typhoid Mary adaptation, or Ikari, or Lady Bullseye, or Death Stalker. Melvin Potter to go full-on Gladiator. And if they have to go with Bullseye, do the early variant who left business cards at his crime scenes, and shot Matt out of a giant crossbow, and hallucinated Daredevil everywhere.\\
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[[WMG:Melvin's mental issues will return]]
In season 1, Melvin's mental issues were pretty understandable, as he was blackmailed into working for Fisk, and worrying about a girl he cares about getting hurt. Therefore, his speech patterns and mannerisms were much more outwardly nervous than when working with Matt, who isn't hanging anything over his head, is warm and kind to him, and who he has a sense of trust with.
However, given the Gladiator teases the show has given us with the sawblades the first time Matt met Melvin, and the armor Melvin was wearing in season 2 when Matt picked up his new helmet, it does seem that Fisk's release might cause his mental problems to resurface again, just like in the comics, especially if Fisk needs a fake Daredevil costume created.
In season 1, Melvin's mental issues were pretty understandable, as he was blackmailed into working for Fisk, and worrying about a girl he cares about getting hurt. Therefore, his speech patterns and mannerisms were much more outwardly nervous than when working with Matt, who isn't hanging anything over his head, is warm and kind to him, and who he has a sense of trust with.
However, given the Gladiator teases the show has given us with the sawblades the first time Matt met Melvin, and the armor Melvin was wearing in season 2 when Matt picked up his new helmet, it does seem that Fisk's release might cause his mental problems to resurface again, just like in the comics, especially if Fisk needs a fake Daredevil costume created.
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** Jossed on both, as Sam Chung is instead making his introduction in ''Iron Fist'' season 2.
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** Jossed on both, as Sam Chung is instead making his introduction in ''Iron Fist'' season 2. Though he is from Chinatown.
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[[WMG:Bullseye is doing some sort of double life thing]]
Much like Fisk is a crimelord who pretends to be a legitimate businessman, they'll have Bullseye be an FBI agent by day and a killer by night. Which would be a perfect mirror of Matt's lawyer by day/vigilante by night gig. Fisk might even hire him to dress up as the red Daredevil and discredit him, especially if he's used to eliminate potential witnesses Blake Tower is using in Fisk's trial.
Much like Fisk is a crimelord who pretends to be a legitimate businessman, they'll have Bullseye be an FBI agent by day and a killer by night. Which would be a perfect mirror of Matt's lawyer by day/vigilante by night gig. Fisk might even hire him to dress up as the red Daredevil and discredit him, especially if he's used to eliminate potential witnesses Blake Tower is using in Fisk's trial.
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** Jossed on both, as Sam Chung is instead making his introduction in ''Iron Fist'' season 2.
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[[WMG:Foggy will run against Blake Tower for District Attorney]]
In the comics, Foggy's tenure as District Attorney was a huge contribution to his character growth, pushing him away from the "Hapless Sidekick" role initially created for him by Stan Lee. It would be a great route to send him down in the show. Such a story arc could give Foggy some much-needed independence from Matt and Karen, and allow for better usage of Blake Tower, who was underused in season 2. Marci could take Debbie Harris' role in this story arc. It would also make Foggy more vulnerable to attacks from Fisk. If Fisk is targeting Foggy, it would give Matt and Karen additional motivation to go after Fisk.
In the comics, Foggy's tenure as District Attorney was a huge contribution to his character growth, pushing him away from the "Hapless Sidekick" role initially created for him by Stan Lee. It would be a great route to send him down in the show. Such a story arc could give Foggy some much-needed independence from Matt and Karen, and allow for better usage of Blake Tower, who was underused in season 2. Marci could take Debbie Harris' role in this story arc. It would also make Foggy more vulnerable to attacks from Fisk. If Fisk is targeting Foggy, it would give Matt and Karen additional motivation to go after Fisk.
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[[WMG: Madam Gao is one of the Inhuman Elders that [[Series/AgentsOfSHIELD Jiaying and Gordon]] answer to.]]
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[[WMG: Madam Madame Gao is one of the Inhuman Elders that [[Series/AgentsOfSHIELD Jiaying and Gordon]] answer to.]]
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She's a fairly major Daredevil villain, but she's a mutant. If Marvel has the rights to her, they'll need another explanation for her powers. IGH would serve to connect her with the rest of the Netflix series.
* Jossed. IGH was exposed in the second season of ''Series/JessiceJones''. Meanwhile, Typhoid Mary made her debut in ''Series/IronFist''.
The possibly IGH-related web of unethical experimentation that produced Kilgrave and Simpson could easily be the source of someone like Mary as well– who is both superpowered and riddled with psychological issues.
It’s hard to know what the post-''Defenders'' landscape will look like in terms of primary characters popping into each other’s shows, but it’s certainly possible that Matt could get involved. Mary could very easily become a ''Jessica Jones'' villain in this universe, with ''Jessica Jones'' season 2 being her origin story arc, with Mary then becoming embroiled in Wilson Fisk’s plans as a pawn/ally in ''Daredevil'' Season 3.
* Jossed. IGH was exposed in the second season of ''Series/JessiceJones''. Meanwhile, Typhoid Mary made her debut in ''Series/IronFist''.
The possibly IGH-related web of unethical experimentation that produced Kilgrave and Simpson could easily be the source of someone like Mary as well– who is both superpowered and riddled with psychological issues.
It’s hard to know what the post-''Defenders'' landscape will look like in terms of primary characters popping into each other’s shows, but it’s certainly possible that Matt could get involved. Mary could very easily become a ''Jessica Jones'' villain in this universe, with ''Jessica Jones'' season 2 being her origin story arc, with Mary then becoming embroiled in Wilson Fisk’s plans as a pawn/ally in ''Daredevil'' Season 3.
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She's a fairly major Daredevil villain, but she's a mutant. If Marvel has the rights to her, they'll need another explanation for her powers. IGH would serve to connect her with the rest of the Netflix series.
* Jossed. IGH was exposed in the second season of ''Series/JessiceJones''. Meanwhile, Typhoid Mary made her debut in ''Series/IronFist''.
series. The possibly IGH-related web of unethical experimentation that produced Kilgrave and Simpson could easily be the source of someone like Mary as well– who is both superpowered and riddled with psychological issues.
It’s hard to know what the post-''Defenders'' landscape will look like in terms of primary characters popping into each other’s shows, but it’s certainly possible that Matt could get involved. Mary could very easily become a ''Jessica Jones'' villain in this universe, with ''Jessica Jones'' season 2 being her origin story arc, with Mary then becoming embroiled in Wilson Fisk’s plans as a pawn/ally in ''Daredevil'' Season3.
3.
* Jossed. IGH was exposed in the second season of ''Series/JessicaJones''. Meanwhile, Typhoid Mary made her debut in ''Series/IronFist''.
* Jossed. IGH was exposed in the second season of ''Series/JessiceJones''. Meanwhile, Typhoid Mary made her debut in ''Series/IronFist''.
It’s hard to know what the post-''Defenders'' landscape will look like in terms of primary characters popping into each other’s shows, but it’s certainly possible that Matt could get involved. Mary could very easily become a ''Jessica Jones'' villain in this universe, with ''Jessica Jones'' season 2 being her origin story arc, with Mary then becoming embroiled in Wilson Fisk’s plans as a pawn/ally in ''Daredevil'' Season
* Jossed. IGH was exposed in the second season of ''Series/JessicaJones''. Meanwhile, Typhoid Mary made her debut in ''Series/IronFist''.
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* Jossed. Fisk doesn't appear.
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* Jossed. IGH was exposed in the second season of ''Series/JessiceJones''. Meanwhile, Typhoid Mary made her debut in ''Series/IronFist''.
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* Confirmed.
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* Jossed unless Shades finds a way to get out of prison and Fisk is willing to work with a known snitch.
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** Jossed. Typhoid Mary is set to appear in ''Series/IronFist''.
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*** Jossed at least in terms of Nuke's involvement. He is dead as of the second season of ''Series/JessicaJones''.
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[[WMG: GhostRider (Johnny Blaze) will make his debut in the series.]]
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[[WMG: GhostRider ComicBook/GhostRider (Johnny Blaze) will make his debut in the series.]]
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** '''Luke Cage''': Foggy is currently Luke's lawyer and a bit of a friend. If he is in trouble, Luke might come to his rescue.
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** '''Luke Cage''': Foggy is currently Luke's lawyer and a bit of a friend. If he is in trouble, Luke might come to his rescue.
rescue. Unless his inheriting of Harlem's Paradise has rendered him more likely to be on the side of the criminals.
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[[folder:Post-Defenders]]
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Of course, the show will also have to address at the very least Matt’s feelings for Elektra, and make clear that he's not in love with her any more before he restarts a relationship with Karen.
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But the other big thing in their communication is actually that Karen’s actually quite the hypocrite when it comes to honesty (no hate, I love Karen. She’s just a complex character like the others). As much as Karen gets after Matt for not talking to her, she has kept secrets from Matt the entire time she’s known him. She’s never talked about her brother's death or whatever happened in her past prior to coming to New York; she went to Foggy with her anxiousness about the city and not wanting to go home (the night they ‘drank the eel’) but never said anything about that to Matt; most of her investigating of Fisk with Ben was done behind Matt’s back; she never told anyone about shooting Wesley; of course her association with Frank Castle was kept mostly a secret. Matt wasn't telling Karen anything, but Karen somehow managed to tell Matt less. So first, Karen needs to see that she’s holding a lot back from Matt as well. It’s less about her needing to tell him the specifics of these things and more that she has to be willing to talk to Matt about something in her life. A big factor here, though, is that Matt was keeping secret about something that he ''is'', while Karen's secrets pertained to things that she had done.
The really interesting thing is that that side of Karen, is really what could potentially make her and Matt a great couple one day, even while now it’s contributing to keeping them apart. [[BirdsOfAFeather Because it’s the side of Karen that is a LOT like Matt]]. The side of them that goes to seek justice no matter what, often outside the law, often in ways that others don’t agree with. It’s the side that keeps secrets, sometimes because of good intentions, sometimes because they think others will try to stop them, sometimes because that’s just what they do. AND there are a lot of parallels between how Matt relates to Elektra and how Karen relates to Frank. For Matt and Karen respectively, Elektra and Frank are the person they understand a little too well. Who they see the best in while others don’t. For Frank and Elektra respectively they are the one person in the world who brings out the softer side. And those relationships sprang up at roughly the same time. Matt and Karen are even really playing the same role to each other in this– the more moral, safer option, whose darker side the other doesn’t realize (in season 2) while they’re also each being drawn toward someone else who’s super violent but with a heart of… maybe not gold, but like bronze or something.
So in essence, everything that Matt was doing that drove him and Karen apart, Karen was doing to some degree as well. If Karen and Matt are really able to open up with each other (and again, the pressure is on BOTH of them), they’ll be able to unlock this whole other side to their relationship that would really deepen what they have. How that openness will come about, I’m not sure. Will it naturally come with time now that Karen knows he’s Daredevil? Will there be a sense of mortality that pushes them together with Fisk getting out of jail? Will some secret of Karen’s have to
Another big factor will be Matt’s feelings for Elektra. But also Karen’s feelings for Frank. In season 2 they both effectively chose the other person, even without actually ending up with that person. So a lot depends on where they stand in regards to those people. Because if Karen still has an unspoken thing for Frank that she’s harboring, that’s gonna get in the way of her and Matt. If Matt is still gung-ho to live or die with Elektra,
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So in other words, Foggy and Marci will repeat what Matt and Foggy had done in leaving Landman & Zack, and start their own firm of Nelson & Stahl, Attorneys at Law. This would allow them to be brought into season 3 of ''Daredevil'' without having to worry about people asking where Jeri, Cheng or Malcolm are. Plus, it'd give seeds for Nelson & Murdock's inevitable revival once Matt comes back from the dead, and once Matt, Karen, Foggy and Marci have re-defeated Fisk, as Matt could become the third wheel in the new firm.
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So in other words, Foggy and Marci will repeat what Matt and Foggy had done in leaving Landman & Zack, and start their own firm of Nelson & Stahl, Attorneys at Law. This would allow them to be brought into season 3 of ''Daredevil'' without having to worry about people asking where Jeri, Cheng or Malcolm are. Plus, it'd give seeds for Nelson & Murdock's inevitable revival once Matt comes back from the dead, and once Matt, Karen, Foggy and Marci have re-defeated Fisk, as Matt could become the third wheel in the new firm.
firm. It's certainly been suggested that Marci will have a much larger role in season 3, so this is likely a good outcome for her.
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But of course the real question is, what about his attitude toward killing? In season 1, Matt tells Father Lantom that his soul will be damned if he kills Fisk. In season 2, he tells Karen that Frank is completely wrong for killing, and that only God (or sometimes a jury) has the right to decide who lives and who dies. What will he think of Karen, once he knows?
All that matters is that Matt doesn't condemn Karen for it. If he's unwilling to condemn an unrepentant assassin like Elektra, he’d better be able to accept the fact that Karen killed once to protect herself and everyone she loves, and has carried a load of guilt for it ever since.[[note]]Elektra is unrepentant because she never really got on board with the idea that killing is bad; her attempts at being good weren't out of a desire to be a good person, but out of a combination of wanting Matt’s approval, rebelling against Stick, and not wanting to be forced into a destiny she never asked for.[[/note]]
All that matters is that Matt doesn't condemn Karen for it. If he's unwilling to condemn an unrepentant assassin like Elektra, he’d better be able to accept the fact that Karen killed once to protect herself and everyone she loves, and has carried a load of guilt for it ever since.[[note]]Elektra is unrepentant because she never really got on board with the idea that killing is bad; her attempts at being good weren't out of a desire to be a good person, but out of a combination of wanting Matt’s approval, rebelling against Stick, and not wanting to be forced into a destiny she never asked for.[[/note]]
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But of course the real question is, what about his Matt's attitude toward killing? In season 1, Matt tells Father Lantom that his soul will be damned if he kills Fisk. In season 2, he tells Karen that Frank is completely wrong for killing, and that only God (or sometimes a jury) has the right to decide who lives and who dies. What will he think of Karen, once he knows?
All that matters is that Matt doesn't condemn Karen for it. If he's unwilling to condemn an unrepentant assassin like Elektra, he’d better be able to accept the fact that Karen killed once to protect herself and everyone she loves, and has carried a load of guilt for it ever since.[[note]]Elektra is unrepentant because she never really got on board with the idea that killing isbad; her bad. Her attempts at being good in season 2, they weren't out of a desire to be a good person, but out of [[WellDoneSonGuy a combination of wanting Matt’s approval, rebelling against Stick, and not wanting to be forced into a destiny she never asked for.[[/note]]
]][[/note]]
All that matters is that Matt doesn't condemn Karen for it. If he's unwilling to condemn an unrepentant assassin like Elektra, he’d better be able to accept the fact that Karen killed once to protect herself and everyone she loves, and has carried a load of guilt for it ever since.[[note]]Elektra is unrepentant because she never really got on board with the idea that killing is
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It was hinted throughout ''The Defenders'' and ''Jessica Jones'' season 2 that Foggy may not have been all that happy with his new job at Jeri Hogarth's law firm. He mentioned when he met up with Matt for drinks at Josie's that he only really seemed happy there because he was working with Marci. And when he met with Karen at the precinct, he told her he was glad for the break from taking depositions, which suggests that he had become less enchanted with big law firm life. Given how Jeri Hogarth essentially told Foggy to fuck off when he tried to offer help on her issues with her partners, I doubt Foggy would want to continue working for her at her new firm. And if Foggy and Marci ever found out about Chao and Benowitz's own dirty activities, that'd be the final straw for both of them as far as working in that environment. And Marci turned on her last corrupt bosses, too. Foggy will repeat with Marci what he did when he and Matt left Landman & Zack: they'll split off and start their own firm, with Nelson & Stahl taking on their own clients. And Matt will join them once his law career is firmly re-established and Fisk is defeated once more, resulting in the firm being called Nelson, Murdock & Stahl, or some variation thereof.
It would coincide perfectly with Marci getting a bigger role in the season 3 narrative.
It would coincide perfectly with Marci getting a bigger role in the season 3 narrative.
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It was hinted throughout ''The Defenders'' and ''Jessica Jones'' season 2 that Foggy may not have been all that happy with his new job at Jeri Hogarth's law firm. He mentioned when he met up with Matt for drinks at Josie's that he only really seemed happy there because he was working with Marci. And when he met with Karen at the precinct, he told her he was glad for the break from taking depositions, which suggests that he had become less enchanted with big law firm life. Given how the condescending way Jeri Hogarth essentially told talked down to Foggy to fuck off when he tried to offer help on in her issues with battle against her partners, acting like he was some sort of annoying nuisance and basically telling him to fuck off, I doubt Foggy would want another minute of that, and the news that Jeri is splitting away from Chao & Benowitz would be a great opportunity to continue make a break.
Of course, running a law practice on your own is tough, as Foggy had seen at Nelson & Murdock when he was covering for Matt's absences. But with Matt being 'dead' and all, he'd have Marci this time. And it'd be pretty easy for Foggy to persuade her that this would be the right choice. After all, [[LovableAlphaBitch Marci may act 'bitchy', but that's to hide her soft side and the fact she actually has moral standards.]] She turned on her colleagues when Foggy presented her with evidence that Landman & Zack's senior management were working forher at her new firm. And Wilson Fisk. So it stands to reason that Marci would also want nothing to do with Hogarth, Chao or Benowitz if she and Foggy and Marci ever found out anything about any of those three name partners' illegal activities (what Jeri did in the whole saga with Kilgrave as well as the IGH matter, or Chao and Benowitz's own dirty activities, that'd be involvement in laundering drug money for cartels kinda like the final straw for both of them as far as working in ones that environment. And did business with Fisk).
So in other words, Foggy and Marciturned on her last corrupt bosses, too. Foggy will repeat with Marci what he did when he and Matt left and Foggy had done in leaving Landman & Zack: they'll split off Zack, and start their own firm, with firm of Nelson & Stahl taking on their own clients. And Matt will join them once his law career is firmly re-established and Fisk is defeated once more, resulting in the firm being called Nelson, Murdock & Stahl, or some variation thereof.
ItAttorneys at Law. This would coincide perfectly with Marci getting a bigger role in the allow them to be brought into season 3 narrative.
of ''Daredevil'' without having to worry about people asking where Jeri, Cheng or Malcolm are. Plus, it'd give seeds for Nelson & Murdock's inevitable revival once Matt comes back from the dead, and once Matt, Karen, Foggy and Marci have re-defeated Fisk, as Matt could become the third wheel in the new firm.
Of course, running a law practice on your own is tough, as Foggy had seen at Nelson & Murdock when he was covering for Matt's absences. But with Matt being 'dead' and all, he'd have Marci this time. And it'd be pretty easy for Foggy to persuade her that this would be the right choice. After all, [[LovableAlphaBitch Marci may act 'bitchy', but that's to hide her soft side and the fact she actually has moral standards.]] She turned on her colleagues when Foggy presented her with evidence that Landman & Zack's senior management were working for
So in other words, Foggy and Marci
It
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[[WMG:Nelson & Murdock will reopen, but with Marci Stahl as the third wheel]]
It was hinted throughout ''The Defenders'' and ''Jessica Jones'' season 2 that Foggy may not have been all that happy with his new job at Jeri Hogarth's law firm. He mentioned when he met up with Matt for drinks at Josie's that he only really seemed happy there because he was working with Marci. And when he met with Karen at the precinct, he told her he was glad for the break from taking depositions, which suggests that he had become less enchanted with big law firm life. Given how Jeri Hogarth essentially told Foggy to fuck off when he tried to offer help on her issues with her partners, I doubt Foggy would want to continue working for her at her new firm. And if Foggy and Marci ever found out about Chao and Benowitz's own dirty activities, that'd be the final straw for both of them as far as working in that environment. And Marci turned on her last corrupt bosses, too. Foggy will repeat with Marci what he did when he and Matt left Landman & Zack: they'll split off and start their own firm, with Nelson & Stahl taking on their own clients. And Matt will join them once his law career is firmly re-established and Fisk is defeated once more, resulting in the firm being called Nelson, Murdock & Stahl, or some variation thereof.
It would coincide perfectly with Marci getting a bigger role in the season 3 narrative.
It was hinted throughout ''The Defenders'' and ''Jessica Jones'' season 2 that Foggy may not have been all that happy with his new job at Jeri Hogarth's law firm. He mentioned when he met up with Matt for drinks at Josie's that he only really seemed happy there because he was working with Marci. And when he met with Karen at the precinct, he told her he was glad for the break from taking depositions, which suggests that he had become less enchanted with big law firm life. Given how Jeri Hogarth essentially told Foggy to fuck off when he tried to offer help on her issues with her partners, I doubt Foggy would want to continue working for her at her new firm. And if Foggy and Marci ever found out about Chao and Benowitz's own dirty activities, that'd be the final straw for both of them as far as working in that environment. And Marci turned on her last corrupt bosses, too. Foggy will repeat with Marci what he did when he and Matt left Landman & Zack: they'll split off and start their own firm, with Nelson & Stahl taking on their own clients. And Matt will join them once his law career is firmly re-established and Fisk is defeated once more, resulting in the firm being called Nelson, Murdock & Stahl, or some variation thereof.
It would coincide perfectly with Marci getting a bigger role in the season 3 narrative.
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[[WMG:Fisk and Vanessa will tie the knot in season 3]]
A wedding would make a lot of sense– especially since weddings in superhero stories are almost always chaos magnets, and we’re anticipating maximum chaos in season 3. It would also fit within what we expect Vanessa’s next story arc might accomplish: cementing her place within Fisk’s world, whatever that world ends up looking like when he gets out of prison.
See, in the comics, Vanessa spent much of her early existence serving as a foil for Fisk– a kind, naive, good person for him to love and protect. For a long time she remained unaware of her husband’s criminal dealings, and supported him in everything he did. However, in later years– most notably, in ''Daredevil'' volume 2– writers started to take her out of this quiet, passive role and to give her more power. This came with a corruption of her established “goodness”, through which she pulled off some twisted schemes of her own, in her husband’s absence. Netflix Vanessa has been set up to follow a similar trajectory– maybe not to the extremes eventually reached by her comics counterpart, but certainly in a way that would give her more agency.
The most interesting arc Vanessa could undergo at this point would be to further solidify her role in Fisk’s criminal dealings. In Season 1 she eventually became aware of his moral iffiness, but nevertheless remained supportive of what he was doing. Thus, with Fisk now having lost much of his power and a lot of his former allies, Vanessa is one of the few who is there to step into a more active position. It’s even possible she has already been helping Fisk from afar, forging necessary connections and setting up his– and her– return. Approaching Vanessa’s story as one of a good person choosing a criminal life (a counterpoint to Mariah Dillard, who slid into criminal activities largely against her will) could be really interesting, particularly if juxtaposed with Matt and Karen and the typical superhero story (as the same thing will be going on in Matt's world, with Karen similarly cementing herself into Matt's Daredevil activities).
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** I don’t [[Spoiler: think Grotto, not after he was killed in season 2.]]
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** I don’t [[Spoiler: [[spoiler: think Grotto, not after he was killed in season 2.]]
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** I don’t [[Spoiler: think Grotto, not after he was killed in season 2.]]
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[[WMG: Nuke's role in the Born Again-inspired storyline will be given to another villain]]
Possible candidates:
* Bullseye
* Death-Stalker
* Indestructible Man
* Crusher (Not Crusher Hogan, but the villain)
* Stunt-Master
* Fancy Dan
* Zhou Cheng, who will be carried over from ''Iron Fist'' and have a bigger role to capitalize on him being an EnsembleDarkhorse.
Possible candidates:
* Bullseye
* Death-Stalker
* Indestructible Man
* Crusher (Not Crusher Hogan, but the villain)
* Stunt-Master
* Fancy Dan
* Zhou Cheng, who will be carried over from ''Iron Fist'' and have a bigger role to capitalize on him being an EnsembleDarkhorse.
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**Jossed, since Simpson died in ''Jessica Jones'' season 2.
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[[WMG:Season 3 will address where Foggy and Marci ended up after Hogarth split from Chao and Benowitz]]
Since Hogarth was the one who brought Foggy on at HC&B, and he and Marci both answer to Hogarth, they probably are the "& Associates" in Jeryn Hogarth & Associates.
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[[WMG:How Matt will reveal himself to Karen and Foggy]]
Karen will probably find out early on. Hopefully, Matt will tell her voluntarily, and if he chooses to keep his 'alive' status secret from Karen and Foggy, then there had better be a pretty goddamned compelling reason, because it’s cruel to leave them wallowing in their grief any longer than necessary. But if there’s anything to take away from previous seasons, it’s that Matt Murdock and the average joe have very different opinions about what constitutes a compelling reason to lie to your loved ones.
Of course, Fisk will be that reason. Fisk is going to be tearing up the place, and Matt has a better chance of defeating him if Fisk thinks he’s dead. He may choose to lie low, once he knows Fisk is taking action, and keep the fact that he’s alive secret from Karen and Foggy in service of the larger goal. If they believe Matt’s dead, then Fisk is more likely to believe it. On the other hand, though, the more danger they’re in, the more Matt will want to protect them. Which will make it harder to hide from them. And Karen and Foggy will be in danger. Fisk might not remember Karen from the Union Allied matter since Wesley is dead, but she’s surely going to oppose him and work against him in season 3, and that will draw his attention eventually.
But presumably Fisk’s activities will take some time to really get going. Unless Matt spends the first few episodes unconscious, he should be capable of at least getting in touch with Karen and Foggy, before Fisk gives him a reason not to. Unless Fisk is already making his move by the time Matt is recovered, he really should tell them he’s alive early in the season.
But if that doesn’t happen, hopefully Karen finds out some other way, the sooner the better. It makes sense that she would be more likely than Foggy to find it out accidentally, given her profession, and how inquisitive, tenacious, and reckless she is. And it would be a refreshing change of pace for Karen to be the one who's in on Matt’s secrets, instead of Foggy, for a change. She’s been left out of the loop way too often, so it’s her turn to be the one who knows. She might go along with Matt's request that she not tell Foggy, if Matt could convince her that it would help them against Fisk. But she knows all too well from these first two standalone seasons and ''The Defenders'' what it’s like to be the one kept in the dark, so she probably wouldn't be happy about it.
Once she knows, we will see Matt and Karen working together to bring Fisk down. Karen will definitely be working against Fisk, with or without Matt. (Foggy will want to stop him, too, but he might not be able to do much, depending on what Fisk does to him.) The first time they went up against Fisk, it was Matt and Karen working separately on the same case, with neither one knowing what the other is doing; this time around, it will be Matt and Karen actively collaborating, sharing information, joining forces to defeat Fisk. Honestly, if Matt has any sense, he should tell her that he’s alive for that very purpose, because he should recognize that they have a better chance if they work together.
And then working together would mean spending time together, and hopefully getting to know each other in a whole new way. Matt usually hasn’t been around for Karen’s most badass moments (Wesley's death, the whole bomb hostage situation in the hotel), and he needs to know that side of her. And Karen has seen Daredevil in action, but she and Matt haven't spoken to each other enough to talk about it since she found out the secret. Karen needs to also have a chance to get used to seeing that side of Matt now that she knows. This would be a really good, convincing way for them to rebuild their relationship.
As for Foggy, he’s probably going to be too busy dealing with his imploding life to help much. Fisk is likely going to get him fired from Hogarth Chao & Benowitz at the minimum, and probably worse. Because when Wilson Fisk threatens to destroy someone, he means it, and he'll be taking you down with everything he has. In the long-term, that could open the door to Nelson & Murdock reopening, but in the short term, poor Foggy will be in for a rough season.
[[WMG:Matt and Karen's relationship mending]]
It stands that Matt and Karen’s relationship will in a prominent position in season 3. Matt and Karen working together as Daredevil and reporter is the only thing that can happen. Ben Urich worked with Daredevil in the comics, but since Ben was killed off in season 1, it only makes sense for Karen to do the same, now that she has Ben’s job. It would be so great to see Karen and Matt develop a working relationship of mutual trust and respect, while also coming back together as a couple and finally getting to be happy together. It will more likely than not, have a slow burn for the romance angle. They need to talk, for one thing. And if Matt’s playing dead, then they can’t be seen together, and they may not have a lot of time for working out their personal issues. But as long as their problems are at least acknowledged, and not swept under the rug, and if it’s made clear as time goes on that they both want to be together, then great. Half a season of longing looks, and lingering touches, and hopefully some secret, desperate kisses, before they actually get things resolved so they can finally bang. And then an amazing sex scene, because they have made us wait so long that the payoff had better be worth it.
Karen will probably find out early on. Hopefully, Matt will tell her voluntarily, and if he chooses to keep his 'alive' status secret from Karen and Foggy, then there had better be a pretty goddamned compelling reason, because it’s cruel to leave them wallowing in their grief any longer than necessary. But if there’s anything to take away from previous seasons, it’s that Matt Murdock and the average joe have very different opinions about what constitutes a compelling reason to lie to your loved ones.
Of course, Fisk will be that reason. Fisk is going to be tearing up the place, and Matt has a better chance of defeating him if Fisk thinks he’s dead. He may choose to lie low, once he knows Fisk is taking action, and keep the fact that he’s alive secret from Karen and Foggy in service of the larger goal. If they believe Matt’s dead, then Fisk is more likely to believe it. On the other hand, though, the more danger they’re in, the more Matt will want to protect them. Which will make it harder to hide from them. And Karen and Foggy will be in danger. Fisk might not remember Karen from the Union Allied matter since Wesley is dead, but she’s surely going to oppose him and work against him in season 3, and that will draw his attention eventually.
But presumably Fisk’s activities will take some time to really get going. Unless Matt spends the first few episodes unconscious, he should be capable of at least getting in touch with Karen and Foggy, before Fisk gives him a reason not to. Unless Fisk is already making his move by the time Matt is recovered, he really should tell them he’s alive early in the season.
But if that doesn’t happen, hopefully Karen finds out some other way, the sooner the better. It makes sense that she would be more likely than Foggy to find it out accidentally, given her profession, and how inquisitive, tenacious, and reckless she is. And it would be a refreshing change of pace for Karen to be the one who's in on Matt’s secrets, instead of Foggy, for a change. She’s been left out of the loop way too often, so it’s her turn to be the one who knows. She might go along with Matt's request that she not tell Foggy, if Matt could convince her that it would help them against Fisk. But she knows all too well from these first two standalone seasons and ''The Defenders'' what it’s like to be the one kept in the dark, so she probably wouldn't be happy about it.
Once she knows, we will see Matt and Karen working together to bring Fisk down. Karen will definitely be working against Fisk, with or without Matt. (Foggy will want to stop him, too, but he might not be able to do much, depending on what Fisk does to him.) The first time they went up against Fisk, it was Matt and Karen working separately on the same case, with neither one knowing what the other is doing; this time around, it will be Matt and Karen actively collaborating, sharing information, joining forces to defeat Fisk. Honestly, if Matt has any sense, he should tell her that he’s alive for that very purpose, because he should recognize that they have a better chance if they work together.
And then working together would mean spending time together, and hopefully getting to know each other in a whole new way. Matt usually hasn’t been around for Karen’s most badass moments (Wesley's death, the whole bomb hostage situation in the hotel), and he needs to know that side of her. And Karen has seen Daredevil in action, but she and Matt haven't spoken to each other enough to talk about it since she found out the secret. Karen needs to also have a chance to get used to seeing that side of Matt now that she knows. This would be a really good, convincing way for them to rebuild their relationship.
As for Foggy, he’s probably going to be too busy dealing with his imploding life to help much. Fisk is likely going to get him fired from Hogarth Chao & Benowitz at the minimum, and probably worse. Because when Wilson Fisk threatens to destroy someone, he means it, and he'll be taking you down with everything he has. In the long-term, that could open the door to Nelson & Murdock reopening, but in the short term, poor Foggy will be in for a rough season.
[[WMG:Matt and Karen's relationship mending]]
It stands that Matt and Karen’s relationship will in a prominent position in season 3. Matt and Karen working together as Daredevil and reporter is the only thing that can happen. Ben Urich worked with Daredevil in the comics, but since Ben was killed off in season 1, it only makes sense for Karen to do the same, now that she has Ben’s job. It would be so great to see Karen and Matt develop a working relationship of mutual trust and respect, while also coming back together as a couple and finally getting to be happy together. It will more likely than not, have a slow burn for the romance angle. They need to talk, for one thing. And if Matt’s playing dead, then they can’t be seen together, and they may not have a lot of time for working out their personal issues. But as long as their problems are at least acknowledged, and not swept under the rug, and if it’s made clear as time goes on that they both want to be together, then great. Half a season of longing looks, and lingering touches, and hopefully some secret, desperate kisses, before they actually get things resolved so they can finally bang. And then an amazing sex scene, because they have made us wait so long that the payoff had better be worth it.
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* Unlikely. Not that there’s anything wrong with Bullseye, but he’s basically Daredevil's version of the Joker. Everyone expects him to be in everything, he is massively over-used, and as a result, he gets boring. After two Bullseye-less seasons, it'd be great to keep the streak up. There are a ton of excellent Daredevil villains who have never been adapted to live action. Villains who would be fresh and new. Mr. Fear, for instance, would be an incredible fit for this show. The Jester could be super cool. Give us a good Typhoid Mary adaptation, or Ikari, or Lady Bullseye, or Death Stalker. Melvin Potter to go full-on Gladiator. And if they have to go with Bullseye, do the early variant who left business cards at his crime scenes, and shot Matt out of a giant crossbow, and hallucinated Daredevil everywhere.\\
That said, though, if Bullseye ''does'' enter the picture at any point, he probably won't kill Karen. Beyond being painfully predictable, and a terrible case of "women in refrigerators" when it happened in the comics, killing Karen would also deprive the show of one of its primary movers and shakers. In ''Daredevil'', Karen is a co-protagonist rather than a secondary character, getting her own independent plotlines and adding complexity to parts of the narrative that Matt can’t cover. She also holds a valuable position as a bridge between the superhero and civilian worlds. Yes, Claire does this too, but Karen’s role as a journalist (and Ben Urich-equivalent) gives her a unique and vital perspective on the events of the show. Losing that perspective would be a detriment to potential future seasons. It’s hard to guess who Bullseye might kill, if they end up going that route, but it's more likely that Brett, Marci, or Ellison would be more suitable targets.
That said, though, if Bullseye ''does'' enter the picture at any point, he probably won't kill Karen. Beyond being painfully predictable, and a terrible case of "women in refrigerators" when it happened in the comics, killing Karen would also deprive the show of one of its primary movers and shakers. In ''Daredevil'', Karen is a co-protagonist rather than a secondary character, getting her own independent plotlines and adding complexity to parts of the narrative that Matt can’t cover. She also holds a valuable position as a bridge between the superhero and civilian worlds. Yes, Claire does this too, but Karen’s role as a journalist (and Ben Urich-equivalent) gives her a unique and vital perspective on the events of the show. Losing that perspective would be a detriment to potential future seasons. It’s hard to guess who Bullseye might kill, if they end up going that route, but it's more likely that Brett, Marci, or Ellison would be more suitable targets.
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[[WMG:Frank won't be making any appearances in season 3]]
While ''Daredevil'' season 2 served as a fantastic springboard for introducing Frank into the MCU, it’s not really where he belongs in a recurring capacity. Sure, he’s a recurring Daredevil character in the comics, but he’s also not in ''every'' Daredevil comic. It’s a matter of scale. Season 2 explored the nature of heroism in relation to killing, contrasting Matt with both Frank on a broad scale, and Elektra on a more personal scale. Season 3 will most likely will focus on the intimate dangers of Matt operating as a superhero, specifically dealing with secret identity issues. This isn’t a topic for which Frank would work out, and while he and Matt DO have a relationship that begs further development, Frank's own show very blatantly separated itself from the rest of the Netflix shows, suggesting that at least for now, Frank will continue to exist within his own sphere. The big wildcard is Karen, who now has a close friendship with Frank. That could pull Frank back into ''Daredevil'', but it's unlikely.
While ''Daredevil'' season 2 served as a fantastic springboard for introducing Frank into the MCU, it’s not really where he belongs in a recurring capacity. Sure, he’s a recurring Daredevil character in the comics, but he’s also not in ''every'' Daredevil comic. It’s a matter of scale. Season 2 explored the nature of heroism in relation to killing, contrasting Matt with both Frank on a broad scale, and Elektra on a more personal scale. Season 3 will most likely will focus on the intimate dangers of Matt operating as a superhero, specifically dealing with secret identity issues. This isn’t a topic for which Frank would work out, and while he and Matt DO have a relationship that begs further development, Frank's own show very blatantly separated itself from the rest of the Netflix shows, suggesting that at least for now, Frank will continue to exist within his own sphere. The big wildcard is Karen, who now has a close friendship with Frank. That could pull Frank back into ''Daredevil'', but it's unlikely.
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Even though Matt had been retired for months between the events of season 2 and ''The Punisher'', he still has perspective on Fisk’s intelligence, if not his actual power at the moment. He might assume that Karen is also in danger, despite her not being mentioned. But at the same time, Karen is probably the person best-equipped to handle that news and keep that secret for him, so he might tell her anyway. (If this were the comics, he’d probably tell Ben Urich, but he's dead in the show and Karen is in Ben's role now.)
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Even though Matt had been retired for months between the events of season 2 and ''The Punisher'', Defenders'', he still has perspective on Fisk’s intelligence, if not his actual power at the moment. He might assume that Karen is also in danger, despite her not being mentioned. But at the same time, Karen is probably the person best-equipped to handle that news and keep that secret for him, so he might tell her anyway. (If this were the comics, he’d probably tell Ben Urich, but he's dead in the show and Karen is in Ben's role now.)
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Matt probably either lost his costume or had it completely destroyed in the events immediately following the Midland Circle collapse. At least, there was no sign of it anywhere in the last shot of him in ''The Defenders'', recovering in the convent, and even if it was salvaged, it's probably not wearable anymore without a visit to Melvin. Matt also received costume upgrades over the course of Seasons 1 and 2, so it would make sense for him to get another one.
Maybe Melvin will also make the suit a bit more red. ''Spider-Man: Homecoming'' and the ''Deadpool'' movie have demonstrated that a bright red superhero suit CAN look good in live action. While Matt will probably not go for candy-apple red, it will probably more like a slightly less maroon version of the season 2 suit. Perhaps we will also see Matt finally get the interlocking D's, which might encourage people to actually call him Daredevil instead of The Devil of Hell's Kitchen.
Maybe Melvin will also make the suit a bit more red. ''Spider-Man: Homecoming'' and the ''Deadpool'' movie have demonstrated that a bright red superhero suit CAN look good in live action. While Matt will probably not go for candy-apple red, it will probably more like a slightly less maroon version of the season 2 suit. Perhaps we will also see Matt finally get the interlocking D's, which might encourage people to actually call him Daredevil instead of The Devil of Hell's Kitchen.
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Matt probably either lost his costume or had it completely destroyed in the events immediately following the destruction of Midland Circle collapse.Circle. At least, there was no sign of it anywhere in the last shot of him in ''The Defenders'', recovering in the convent, and even if it was salvaged, it's probably not wearable anymore without a visit to Melvin. Matt also received costume upgrades over the course of Seasons 1 and 2, so it would make sense for him to get another one.
Maybe Melvin will also make the suit a bit more red.''Spider-Man: Homecoming'' ''Film/SpiderManHomecoming'' and the ''Deadpool'' ''Film/{{Deadpool}}'' movie have demonstrated that a bright red superhero suit CAN look good in live action. While Matt will probably not go for candy-apple red, it will probably more like a slightly less maroon version of the season 2 suit. Perhaps we will also see Matt finally get the interlocking D's, which might encourage people to actually call him Daredevil instead of The Devil of Hell's Kitchen.
[[WMG:Karen will be the first to learn Matt is alive. Matt will not tell Foggy until much later on]]
Matt will first reach out to Karen while letting Foggy continue to think he's dead (sorta like how in ''The Punisher'', Frank only stayed in touch with Curtis Hoyle after faking his death, and let Billy Russo think he was dead), and only come out to Foggy once Fisk starts going after him. When Fisk threatened Matt in prison, he only mentioned Foggy’s name and said nothing about Karen, which might lead Matt to think Karen’s at less risk of retaliation from Fisk than Foggy since Matt doesn’t yet know about what Karen did to Wesley (then again, neither does Fisk know the truth about Wesley, unless something’s come up).
Even though Matt had been retired for months between the events of season 2 and ''The Punisher'', he still has perspective on Fisk’s intelligence, if not his actual power at the moment. He might assume that Karen is also in danger, despite her not being mentioned. But at the same time, Karen is probably the person best-equipped to handle that news and keep that secret for him, so he might tell her anyway. (If this were the comics, he’d probably tell Ben Urich, but he's dead in the show and Karen is in Ben's role now.)
There's also the possibility that Karen will be investigating at the beginning of the season and figure out Matt is alive on her own. Maybe she'll find out something on Matt's mother while trying to find if Matt has any immediate relatives in the city. She is very inquisitive, and when she was last seen in ''The Defenders'', she was still trying to keep hope alive that Matt would return. And the image of Matt swooping in out of nowhere to protect Foggy is too tempting.
Maybe Melvin will also make the suit a bit more red.
[[WMG:Karen will be the first to learn Matt is alive. Matt will not tell Foggy until much later on]]
Matt will first reach out to Karen while letting Foggy continue to think he's dead (sorta like how in ''The Punisher'', Frank only stayed in touch with Curtis Hoyle after faking his death, and let Billy Russo think he was dead), and only come out to Foggy once Fisk starts going after him. When Fisk threatened Matt in prison, he only mentioned Foggy’s name and said nothing about Karen, which might lead Matt to think Karen’s at less risk of retaliation from Fisk than Foggy since Matt doesn’t yet know about what Karen did to Wesley (then again, neither does Fisk know the truth about Wesley, unless something’s come up).
Even though Matt had been retired for months between the events of season 2 and ''The Punisher'', he still has perspective on Fisk’s intelligence, if not his actual power at the moment. He might assume that Karen is also in danger, despite her not being mentioned. But at the same time, Karen is probably the person best-equipped to handle that news and keep that secret for him, so he might tell her anyway. (If this were the comics, he’d probably tell Ben Urich, but he's dead in the show and Karen is in Ben's role now.)
There's also the possibility that Karen will be investigating at the beginning of the season and figure out Matt is alive on her own. Maybe she'll find out something on Matt's mother while trying to find if Matt has any immediate relatives in the city. She is very inquisitive, and when she was last seen in ''The Defenders'', she was still trying to keep hope alive that Matt would return. And the image of Matt swooping in out of nowhere to protect Foggy is too tempting.
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* [[http://marvel.com/news/tv/24596/rosario_dawson_returns_to_hells_kitchen_in_the_netflix_original_series_marvels_daredevil_season_2_more More or less confirmed]] by Marvel themselves, saying Rosario Dawson signed a deal that would allow Claire to show up in ''Series/JessicaJones2015'', ''Luke Cage'', ''Iron Fist'', and ''The Defenders'' as well as the second season of ''Daredevil''.
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* [[http://marvel.com/news/tv/24596/rosario_dawson_returns_to_hells_kitchen_in_the_netflix_original_series_marvels_daredevil_season_2_more More or less confirmed]] by Marvel themselves, saying Rosario Dawson signed a deal that would allow Claire to show up in ''Series/JessicaJones2015'', ''Luke Cage'', ''Iron Fist'', and ''The Defenders'' as well as the second season of ''Daredevil''. \n The only show she hasn't appeared in was ''Series/ThePunisher2017''.
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[[WMG:Micro is not a human.]]
He is actually an ArtificialIntelligence similar to [[Film/IronMan J.A.R.V.I.S.]]. [[spoiler:The reason why his name appears on the disc label that Frank Castle keeps is because the disc ''is'' him, or rather storing his memory as an AI, similar to how Tony Stark stores his backup AI in a chip in ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron''. Micro is an assistant to Frank Castle as much as J.A.R.V.I.S. was to Tony Stark]]. In ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD'', Skye namedropped him without even knowing that her Rising Tide contact is not a human.
** Jossed. He's a normal person, played by Ebon Moss-Bachrach.
He is actually an ArtificialIntelligence similar to [[Film/IronMan J.A.R.V.I.S.]]. [[spoiler:The reason why his name appears on the disc label that Frank Castle keeps is because the disc ''is'' him, or rather storing his memory as an AI, similar to how Tony Stark stores his backup AI in a chip in ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron''. Micro is an assistant to Frank Castle as much as J.A.R.V.I.S. was to Tony Stark]]. In ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD'', Skye namedropped him without even knowing that her Rising Tide contact is not a human.
** Jossed. He's a normal person, played by Ebon Moss-Bachrach.
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He is actually an ArtificialIntelligence similar to [[Film/IronMan J.A.R.V.I.S.]]. [[spoiler:The reason why his name appears on the disc label
** Jossed. He's a normal person, played by Ebon Moss-Bachrach.
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* Confirmed as of January 2018
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[[WMG:Matt will get a new costume from Melvin]]
Matt probably either lost his costume or had it completely destroyed in the events immediately following the Midland Circle collapse. At least, there was no sign of it anywhere in the last shot of him in ''The Defenders'', recovering in the convent, and even if it was salvaged, it's probably not wearable anymore without a visit to Melvin. Matt also received costume upgrades over the course of Seasons 1 and 2, so it would make sense for him to get another one.
Maybe Melvin will also make the suit a bit more red. ''Spider-Man: Homecoming'' and the ''Deadpool'' movie have demonstrated that a bright red superhero suit CAN look good in live action. While Matt will probably not go for candy-apple red, it will probably more like a slightly less maroon version of the season 2 suit. Perhaps we will also see Matt finally get the interlocking D's, which might encourage people to actually call him Daredevil instead of The Devil of Hell's Kitchen.
Matt probably either lost his costume or had it completely destroyed in the events immediately following the Midland Circle collapse. At least, there was no sign of it anywhere in the last shot of him in ''The Defenders'', recovering in the convent, and even if it was salvaged, it's probably not wearable anymore without a visit to Melvin. Matt also received costume upgrades over the course of Seasons 1 and 2, so it would make sense for him to get another one.
Maybe Melvin will also make the suit a bit more red. ''Spider-Man: Homecoming'' and the ''Deadpool'' movie have demonstrated that a bright red superhero suit CAN look good in live action. While Matt will probably not go for candy-apple red, it will probably more like a slightly less maroon version of the season 2 suit. Perhaps we will also see Matt finally get the interlocking D's, which might encourage people to actually call him Daredevil instead of The Devil of Hell's Kitchen.
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But of course the real question is, what about his attitude toward killing? In season 1, Matt tells Father Lantom that his soul will be damned if he kills Fisk. In season 2, he tells Karen that Frank is completely wrong for killing, and that only God (or sometimes a jury) has the right to decide who lives and who dies. What will he think of Karen, once he knows?
All that matters is that Matt doesn't condemn Karen for it. If he's unwilling to condemn an unrepentant assassin like Elektra, he’d better be able to accept the fact that Karen killed once to protect herself and everyone she loves, and has carried a load of guilt for it ever since.[[note]]Elektra is unrepentant because she never really got on board with the idea that killing is bad; her attempts at being good weren't out of a desire to be a good person, but out of a combination of wanting Matt’s approval, rebelling against Stick, and not wanting to be forced into a destiny she never asked for.[[/note]]
Then there’s Matt’s own actions. Sure, Matt hasn’t deliberately killed anyone. But he wanted to kill Fisk, and was willing to consider killing the Blacksmith, which a good Catholic boy ought to see as already sinning in his heart. Nobu ended up dead after their season 1 fight and their season 2 fight (Matt throwing him off the roof, specifically; not Stick finishing him off), even if that wasn’t Matt’s intent. He’s also inflicted injuries on lots of people that, realistically, should kill them, even if the show doesn’t show them dying. It would take a large dose of hypocrisy for him to condemn Karen, because his own hands are not as clean as he likes to claim.
If the writers allow Matt to have any kind of self-awareness at all, he should accept the truth, and accept that Karen has a darker side, just like he does.
All that matters is that Matt doesn't condemn Karen for it. If he's unwilling to condemn an unrepentant assassin like Elektra, he’d better be able to accept the fact that Karen killed once to protect herself and everyone she loves, and has carried a load of guilt for it ever since.[[note]]Elektra is unrepentant because she never really got on board with the idea that killing is bad; her attempts at being good weren't out of a desire to be a good person, but out of a combination of wanting Matt’s approval, rebelling against Stick, and not wanting to be forced into a destiny she never asked for.[[/note]]
Then there’s Matt’s own actions. Sure, Matt hasn’t deliberately killed anyone. But he wanted to kill Fisk, and was willing to consider killing the Blacksmith, which a good Catholic boy ought to see as already sinning in his heart. Nobu ended up dead after their season 1 fight and their season 2 fight (Matt throwing him off the roof, specifically; not Stick finishing him off), even if that wasn’t Matt’s intent. He’s also inflicted injuries on lots of people that, realistically, should kill them, even if the show doesn’t show them dying. It would take a large dose of hypocrisy for him to condemn Karen, because his own hands are not as clean as he likes to claim.
If the writers allow Matt to have any kind of self-awareness at all, he should accept the truth, and accept that Karen has a darker side, just like he does.
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[[WMG:Wilson Bethel's character is Leland Drummond or some variant thereof]]
Interviews have strongly suggested that season 3 will take some elements from ''The Murdock Papers'' arc, and Leland Drummond was the FBI agent who got involved in Fisk's ploy to sell non-existent papers with info on Matt-as-Daredevil as part of a plea deal. Furthermore, Bethel is being marketed as a series regular.
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[[WMG:Matt and Karen will reconcile on more honest terms]]
It stands to reason that by the end of season 3, Karen and Matt will be back together, given the season will take heavy inspiration from the Karedevil-centric "Born Again". Of course we can’t take that for granted because, as Charlie Cox once said, there’d be no surprise in watching something we fully know the outcome of.
In terms of Matt and Karen figuring things out, they'll most likely have to start over. They have feelings for each other, but they clearly weren’t enough the first time around, so they'll most likely have to start from scratch. It helps maybe that Matt is almost literally resurrecting from the dead, which could help with that. Plus, Karen has yet to reveal what happened with her and Wesley and even her past involving her brother, so Matt and Karen obviously have a lot of issues to work out. With Fisk getting out of prison and very likely going after both it’s safe to assume Matt and Karen will have to stick together and collaborate a lot. The relationship will finally be one built on honesty: every interaction Matt and Karen have shared so far was based on masks and disguises, lies and omissions, but this time should be different. They’ll arguably be at their most vulnerable and raw and that should pay off.
Of course, the show will also have to address at the very least Matt’s feelings for Elektra, and make clear that he's not in love with her any more before he restarts a relationship with Karen.
It stands to reason that by the end of season 3, Karen and Matt will be back together, given the season will take heavy inspiration from the Karedevil-centric "Born Again". Of course we can’t take that for granted because, as Charlie Cox once said, there’d be no surprise in watching something we fully know the outcome of.
In terms of Matt and Karen figuring things out, they'll most likely have to start over. They have feelings for each other, but they clearly weren’t enough the first time around, so they'll most likely have to start from scratch. It helps maybe that Matt is almost literally resurrecting from the dead, which could help with that. Plus, Karen has yet to reveal what happened with her and Wesley and even her past involving her brother, so Matt and Karen obviously have a lot of issues to work out. With Fisk getting out of prison and very likely going after both it’s safe to assume Matt and Karen will have to stick together and collaborate a lot. The relationship will finally be one built on honesty: every interaction Matt and Karen have shared so far was based on masks and disguises, lies and omissions, but this time should be different. They’ll arguably be at their most vulnerable and raw and that should pay off.
Of course, the show will also have to address at the very least Matt’s feelings for Elektra, and make clear that he's not in love with her any more before he restarts a relationship with Karen.
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At this point, Karen will have to come clean with Matt and Foggy about killing Wesley. She'll almost certainly have to if she wants to restart a relationship with Matt. Part of the reason that she seems anti-Daredevil in ''The Defenders'' is because Matt has come clean about his secrets, but she hasn't reciprocated by telling him her secrets. Karen's secrets are important because it's the thing that's going to make Matt realize she's just like him and that she's speaking not from innocent naiveté or ignorance, but experience and learning from her mistakes. Karen, like Matt, is flawed and imperfect. And yeah, they're going to fight about it like crazy, but I think the conclusion will ultimately both of them understanding that Daredevil and Dark!karen as a necessary part of their humanity and that one side cannot exist without the other. Matt's problem is that he thinks Karen is pure, innocent and dumb but she's wiser and more flawed than even he is.
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At this point, Karen will have to come clean with Matt and Foggy about killing Wesley. She'll almost certainly have to if she wants to restart a relationship with Matt. Part of the reason that she seems anti-Daredevil in ''The Defenders'' is because Matt has come clean about his secrets, but she hasn't reciprocated by telling him her secrets. Karen's secrets are important because it's the thing that's going to make Matt realize she's just like him and that she's speaking not from innocent naiveté or ignorance, but experience and learning from her mistakes. Karen, like Matt, is flawed and imperfect. And yeah, they're going to fight about it like crazy, but I think the conclusion will ultimately both of them understanding that Daredevil and Dark!karen Dark!Karen as a necessary part of their humanity and that one side cannot exist without the other. Matt's problem is that he thinks Karen is pure, innocent and dumb but wholesome, when she's wiser and more flawed than even he is.
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* Kingpin sends an assassin after the homeless Matt, but his mother finds and brings him back to the nunnery. Instead of trying to drown him in a car, the assassin simply chases Matt and stabs and/or shoots him somewhere near the church.
* Karen [[CompositeCharacter takes Ben Ulrich's role]] from the original ''Born Again'' storyline. Her story is the most changed, with her doing sexual favors for a guy named Paulo Scorsese being abandoned and replaced with watching after Foggy in the hospital, who is still being targeted by Kingpin for death. This is where she meets a nurse named Lois, based off the character from the storyline.
* Nuke is made the one sent after Foggy. Nuke kills Lois, since she's more of a MythologyGag then an actual character.
* Karen [[CompositeCharacter takes Ben Ulrich's role]] from the original ''Born Again'' storyline. Her story is the most changed, with her doing sexual favors for a guy named Paulo Scorsese being abandoned and replaced with watching after Foggy in the hospital, who is still being targeted by Kingpin for death. This is where she meets a nurse named Lois, based off the character from the storyline.
* Nuke is made the one sent after Foggy. Nuke kills Lois, since she's more of a MythologyGag then an actual character.
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* Kingpin Fisk sends an assassin after the homeless Matt, but his mother finds and brings him back to the nunnery. Instead of trying to drown him in a car, the assassin simply chases Matt and stabs and/or shoots him somewhere near the church.
* Karen [[CompositeCharacter takes BenUlrich's Urich's role]] from the original ''Born Again'' storyline. Her story is the most changed, with her doing sexual favors for a guy named Paulo Scorsese being abandoned and replaced with watching after Foggy in the hospital, who is still being targeted by Kingpin Fisk for death. This is where she meets a nurse named Lois, based off the character from the storyline.
*Nuke Will Simpson is made the one sent after Foggy. Nuke Simpson kills Lois, since she's more of a MythologyGag then an actual character.
* Karen [[CompositeCharacter takes Ben
*
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* Karen takes Ben Ulrich's role from the original ''Born Again'' storyline. Her original role is mostly AdaptedOut.
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* Karen [[CompositeCharacter takes Ben Ulrich's role role]] from the original ''Born Again'' storyline. Her original role story is mostly AdaptedOut.
the most changed, with her doing sexual favors for a guy named Paulo Scorsese being abandoned and replaced with watching after Foggy in the hospital, who is still being targeted by Kingpin for death. This is where she meets a nurse named Lois, based off the character from the storyline.
* Nuke is made the one sent after Foggy. Nuke kills Lois, since she's more of a MythologyGag then an actual character.
* [[AdaptedOut No Captain America.]]
* Nuke is made the one sent after Foggy. Nuke kills Lois, since she's more of a MythologyGag then an actual character.
* [[AdaptedOut No Captain America.]]
