History Headscratchers / RedDwarf

*** There was probably an off-screen argument about that very thing. In Me2, Rimmer wasn't moving ''out'', he was moving ''in'' with someone else. If he wanted a room of his very own, do you think Lister would be willing to leave? Or would Lister insist Rimmer be the one to go, just to piss him off, knowing that Rimmer was stuck-up and self-important enough to refuse and demand Lister go? And so it would go on and on until they both refused to go anywhere, and so stayed in the same room together

*** Do NOT let Cat here you say that!

** My theory is energy vampires. When Red Dwarf didn't quite manage to destroy itself with Back to Earth, the EVs leaped in like lions picking off a wounded gazelle. They strike our tenderest points and are damn near impossible to counter. I just wish this hadn't happened in my time...

* So we discover in season 1 that Rimmer is capable of transforming himself into an exact physical duplicate of Kochanski (and presumably ''anyone'' else) by simply installing her holodisc. Question: Rimmer's sexual history consists of one woman he essentially raped (she had a concussion and confused him for someone else) and his continuing love affair with a blow up doll. So... why doesn't he, instead of making out with a fake plastic woman, just become Kochanski in private and have multiple [[ADateWithRosiePalms private sessions]] with her body? It's not as if he has any concern for her honour or whatever given that he has already stared down her bra and even if he did there are plenty of other female members of the crew he could duplicate.

** I think it's possibly because Holly was female for a bit longer than s/he was male, at least originally; Creator/NormanLovett was in two series, Hattie Hayridge was in three, and there was a bit of a gap before Lovett returned which just helped to cement Holly being female in people's minds. Also, as noted in the OP Holly's a traditionally female name, so it's just an easy habit to slip into.

* We know that the Dad episode, that would have served as the original Series 3 opener, wasn't finished and aired because the writers deemed it unfunny and sexist (so instead, they bridge the gap between Series 2-3 with a Star Trek like message at the start Series 3 instead), but they could have reordered the Series 2 episodes around to make the transition of Kryten suddenly becoming a regular work better. Instead of having Kryten appearing as a guest star of the Series 2 opening, then absent for the rest of the season from Better than Life-Parallel Universe, they could have placed the Kryten episode as the Series 2 finale, and have Better Than Life as the Series 2 opener. Then with Parallel Universe being the fifth episode instead of the sixth, we can deal with Lister being pregnant, and the inclusion of Hatty Hayridge etc. Then, with the Kryten episode as the sixth of Series 2, it shows Kryten being with the crew in the finale. Then when we go onto Series 3, Kryten is already there. While the Dad episode would still make the Lister's pregnancy storyline being cut short, explained with the Star Trek like message, at least we wouldn't have five episodes after 'Kryten' when the mechanoid was vacant.

** I think it's possibly because Holly was female for a bit longer than s/he was male, at least originally; Norman Lovett was in two series, Hattie Hayridge was in three, and there was a bit of a gap before Lovett returned which just helped to cement Holly being female in people's minds. Also, as noted in the OP Holly's a traditionally female name, so it's just an easy habit to slip into.

The following questions concern a show about an outer space Scouse vending machine repairman eating vindaloo with a snarky hologram and a laundry robot 3 million years in the future. These thorny issues are apparently keeping actual human people up at night, so please be thoughtful and thorough in your responses, explaining as many of the jokes from the show as you can along the way.

** Can't be right, yet another proof that the world ended in 2012
** My theory is energy vampires. When Red Dwarf didn't quite manage to destroy itself with Back to Earth, the EVs leaped in like lions picking off a wounded gazelle. They strike our tenderest points and are damn near impossible to counter. I just wish this hadn't happened in my time.

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Mother of god how is this page so long

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* I know they wanted to change the setting for Season VIII, but the charges against the cast are very shaky (well except for Rimmer who's dead guilty). Lister was the highest ranked crewmen, he was entitled to those records, otherwise Holly wouldn't have given them to him. Maybe you can fault him for giving them to Rimmer, but they still came from Starbug, a ship he captain independently from Red Dwarf for years, with large portions of the records being about thing that happened after the crew's initial death. Kochansky also had absolutely nothing to with that, so she should have been free to go as soon as she was exonerated of stealing Starbug. Kryton is still guilty, guilty of being insane, so they should be trying to restore h to factory settings instead of throwing him in the brig. The Cat has it worst of all, he's not a crew member or in any way affiliated with the space corps. He should be treated as a civilian like the captain's acquaintance in "Only the good." He can't break their rules as he exists entirely outside of their system. The most he can be charged with is associating with rule breakers, but even then it's hardly like he has much choice given they were some of the only thinking beings in existence. Chalk it up to rule of funny, but it really stretches willing suspension of disbelief. I'd rather the captain come out and say that he's locking them away as he simply doesn't want to deal with them.

* Series 7 (and subsequently Series 8) are often regarded as the least successful of the seasons in comparison to Series 1-6, due to them leaning more towards sci fi adventure, or drama-coms than the popular sit-com feel of the earlier shows. So why is it, that the same fans tend to consider and vote Back To Reality (Series 5) as the most popular and favorite Red Dwarf episode? Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic episode, and a great script, but apart from a few laughs on Dwayne Dibbly's appearance, it's not really the epitome of funny. In actual fact, the episode is actually very dramatic, with despair and suicide used as plot points. It's not really a traditional sit-com feel at all, and in many ways quite akin to Series 7. But Back To Reality is loved, and Series 7 is hated? I guess I never really understood that. If being funny and sit-com orientated was what Red Dwarf is supposed to be liked for, why is Back To Reality voted the most favorite episode? I can think of several episodes more conventionally funny throughout than Back To Reality. And if it's the dramatic undertones that give the plotline substance, then does Series 7 really deserve the stick it gets?
** You do make a legitimate point when it comes to Back To Reality, but there is more to it than fans misappropriating their praise. One problems with a lot of season 7's more "scifi drama" oriented storylines is a lack of tact in execution. For example, 7 had scenarios like Lister having to come to terms with being mutilated and losing an arm. It could have been funny if it was some kind of temporary just desert for a cruel slight, like Rimmer being marooned for hundreds of years for abandoning his friends, but the tone of the episode made the comedy tragic and painful for a character we've learned to love, no matter how disgusting he is, and dealing with a very real and upsetting problem that some viewers face every day. Back To Reality on the other hand may deal with subjects such as suicidal depression and the use of videogames as vicarious escapism, but it's all through a speculative fiction lens that never gets too heavy with the true pathos of the suicidal mentality. Also while it might be subjective to say, Back To Reality still provides some really good laughs, such as Rimmer abusing the team as they blubber, the games techinican's banter as the boys wake up, and the chaotic mime sequence as they hallucinate the car chase. Back To Reality hit that perfect medium between suicidal carp and Baudrillardian philosophy.
** It may also be because Series VII was the first new Red Dwarf material after a four-year hiatus, the longest gap there had ever been between series: people were expecting something more sitcom-ish and less dramatic, like Series VI had been. And the other changes like Rimmer leaving and needing to replace models with CGI just added to people's resentment, and they haven't gotten over it since. Personally I really like Series VII, but that may be because it was the first Red Dwarf series I saw.
** On top of not being written as well (Naylor not being used to writing without Grant), I feel it's because the two seasons are rather different flavours. One is a slightly campy, more sitcomish series that places more ephasis on romantic and gender tension seen in more traditional sitcoms. The other is a rather dark and bleak sci-fi show that uses the monster-of-the-week formula to present hypothetical science fiction scenarios that explore the characters in episodes like Back to Reality, Terrorform, Holoship, Demons & Angels and The Inquisitor (in fact the only episode not to do this is Quarantine). This use of theoretical sci-fi to show what makes the characters tick was lacking in VII and entirely absent in VIII, meaning the plot felt very unimportant to the characters. Gone were the interesting science fiction scenarios like Future Echoes, Backwards or Timeslides, which in the early seasons of Red Dwarf were one of the few positive features of the show. But I did notice that of all the seasons, Seires V is the one that had the least laughs from the audience track, and I find it unessecarily dark in all episodes except Quarantine and Holoship.
*** This is more about Back To Reality though, and the inconsistency behind the fanbase. People say they loved Back To Reality toying with them, and the plot twists. But look how Back To Earth was received? Not very well. But essentially, it was the same thing. I often feel people just tend to praise Back To Reality for the hell of it, because series 5 is seen of as 'perfect' and they're ''expected to''.
** I'm not sure there's really an answer to this one, other than "people have different tastes". Personally, I think that that "Back to Reality" effectively juggles drama, comedy and sci-fi in a way that the others mentioned don't; just because two things do the same thing doesn't mean that one can't do it better than the other.
** If we treat ''Back to Reality'' as a representative pinnacle of the longest stretch of consistent situation in the entire series, rather than as an individual episode, we may have the answer. ''Back to Reality'', like the preceding 17 episodes, contained four humanoid males and a female computer. Of the four humanoid males, only one was identifiable as Human, the others were distinctly "other" (a ghost, an anthropomorphic feline, and a congenital servant). The dynamic was slightly different in the original 12 episodes (lose the congenital servant and make the computer male), and the subsequent six (lose the computer in the second), but not significantly so. Series VII had a very different feel to it - not only was the writing team different (and the writing quality went down), the effects were done differently, there was no live audience for the cast to react to them reacting whilst recording, and halfway through the dynamic changed drastically. Instead of adding another "other" humanoid male, or changing the gender of an insubstantial MrExposition, the ghost left and was replaced by a '''female''', who was not only "not-other", but was a significant emotional attachment to the pre-existing Human. The very premise of the show was altered in Series VII, and in Series VIII it was almost completely changed. Series VIII brought back the ghost as a Human, and added a plethora of other Humans with which to interact. Add to that a noticeable nose-dive in writing quality, and you have the reason for Series VIII's deep unpopularity, only matched by ''Back to Earth'' and closely followed by Series VII.
*** Right, that would explain series VII and VIII, but what about Back To Earth? The dynamic was the four humanoid' males, Rimmer was a hologram again, Kochanski had returned to her 'lost' status, it contains pretty much the same premise as Back To Reality episode wise, yet... it's unpopular.
** Do you not think the fact that "it contains the same premise" may be a major cause for its unpopularity? Back to Earth can be seen as an unnecessary re-hash of Back to Reality (even the title is 75% recycled!). What's more, it's almost three times as long and nowhere near as funny. Had Back to Earth been made in series V, and Back to Reality 17 years later, then perhaps Back to Earth would be held in higher regard. As it stands though, they re-did a classic, and they re-did it poorly. Evoke a masterpiece at your peril, you might say. Emohawk Polymorph II had already proved that re-hashing old plots was the wrong route to go down. Re-hashing the most popular episode was bound to cause trouble. For what it's worth I don't think Back to Earth is all bad. But Steve Mcdonald from ''Series/CoronationStreet'' really has no place in a show set 3 million years into deep space.
*** It's because premise only makes up like 10% of what makes something good, if even that much. Writing is a much bigger thing. And Back to the Earth, for the most part, is pretty banal and predictable. Part 2 and the first half of Part 3 in particular are basically just the crew going from one place to another, commenting on how strange the situation is.
*** As for why people like a pretty emotionally dramatic like ‘Back To Reality’ and not the comparibly-toned ‘Back To Earth’ - even all other things being equal (which as pointed out above, they are not: the writing, situation etc fluctated), the reason someone might like a dramatic epsiode but not a dramatic season is the context. The most well- and fondly- remembered moments of comedies are often those that break the format or shift the tone of that series. The paintball episode/s of Community; the ‘Sherlock Holmes with dementia’ sketch from That Mitchell and Webb Sound; the final moments of Blackadder IV etc. People often love bottle episodes for similar reasons. It’s nice to have a touch of something surprising and fresh within the context of a series you don’t actually want to change more broadly. It’s like going on holiday.

* I honestly don’t know why Red Dwarf fans adore and praise Rimmer as a character. He’s a misogynist (and technically a borderline rapist), and it’s heavily implied (if not outright stated) that he’s a fascist as well. He certainly has a superiority complex. He’s the manifestation of everything unlikeable in a person. In universe, he’s disliked for a reason. In fact, that’s the central theme of his entire character. He’s a smeghead, he’s a git. Chris Barrie himself even says this. You like him, because you like to hate him. But romanticizing him as you call yourself ‘Rimmer’s girl’ or ‘Arnie’s lass’ or similar things like that is extremely problematic. Admire Chris Barrie as an actor, sure (without being creepily obsessed of course), but you’ve got to remember the point of the Rimmer character. He’s supposed to be a smeghead.
** DracoInLeatherPants, I guess.
** It's probably his backstory and his refusal to give up on his dreams that endears people to him. As he said to The Inquisitor, "Yes, I admit I'm nothing. But from what I started with, nothing is up."
** Not to mention both versions of him showed considerable growth. One grew into a reluctant but genuine hero, and the reborn one managed to go into a mirror universe where his life was excellent, and didn't hesitate for a ''moment'' to leave it to go help everyone else, even though apparently they all went into the mirror universe after him.
** There's sort of two questions here - why Rimmer might be regarded as a character in general, and why specifically the fanbase like him. As for the first. Rimmer is a great character in the sitcom mould (and in a great sitcom relationship). Without getting too deeply into hierarchy/four-clown band stuff, sitcom protagonists tend to work best when they are strongly motivated but by venal desires. Rimmer's pride, vanity and lust motivate him and makes plots happen. The dynamic of these as they but up against his foil, Lister, is the engine of the show. The really tricky thing is making a character all of those things but still watchable and enjoyable (even likeable). That's partly format: you can make your character pretty despicable as long as the premise of the show includes them being called out by other characters, and/or circumstances always foiling their plans. As long as the universe hates them, the audience doesn't have to. As for the fanbase, the way in which devoted fans relate to something is its own thing with its own rules. The attitude of the casual viewer is ruled by broad impressions formed on a straight-forward fairly surface reading of the text as presented. Fandom chews up and spits out a franchise, introduces fanon, becomes overfamiliar with things that were only meant to be viewed fleetingly or at a surface levelde- and reconstructs ideas to suit itself etc. Casual viewer consesus is based on a conversation between text and viewer. Fandom consensus is based on a conversation between fans. So more personal responses like headcanons and crushes come to the fore. Hardcore fans probably like Rimmer a lot because he has a lot of potential to mine for this kind of fandom consumption. He works as a character to the normal sitcom viewer because he's a driven, venal man redeemed by his buttmonkey past and present, and played by a talented and charistmatic actor. The fandom loves him because there's enough there to turn him into a lot of the things fandom loves - cute, troubled, redeemable etc.
*** You do have to wonder if Rimmer would be quite so popular if Chris Barrie looked like the back end of a bus, or if episodes like ''Terrorform'' didn't exist.