History Headscratchers / PlanescapeTorment

[[folder: Overshadowing Planescape]]
* The game is really good, but I just hate how it is more *known* than the original Planescape setting, which I believe is the best D&D setting. Hell, I bet 90% of the people who played it didn't know it was based on D&D at all.
** If anything, Torment has given Planescape more press than it would have had as an obscure 2nd edition D&D supplement. There's always going to be people who play something brainlessly and never investigate what it's based on, but I found out what Planescape was by playing Torment and ended up reading all the Planescape sourcebooks, including the 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes and extended materials, just for entertainment's sake.
*** Same here, I found Mimir.net, the original Planescape fansite (it's still around, but no longer updates) and thus became a fan of the setting because of Torment. My main regret is that they were so intent on totally subverting D&D cliches that they missed out on a few chances to put things like dirty Hiver dwarves or references to mythology that were a mainstay of the original campaign. It's more a very, very minor quibble, as Torment is my favourite game. I have no idea if that would have improved the game or made it worse, though. There are a couple references to other aspects of the multiverse, like the guy from [[FarEast Kara-Tur]] who's a zombie in the Mortuary now.
[[/folder]]

** This Troper always assumed that it was [[LawfulGood Trias]], [[ChaoticNeutral Ravel]] and [[LawfulEvil Pharos]], and '''nothing''' can convince him otherwise. Oh, and to respond to the one above that claimed that "Him Self" was one of the three, that is wrong. Him Self was mentioned in the prophecy. The full quote went "You shall meet Enemies Three, but none of ''them more powerful than you self in your full glory''..."

*** None more dangerous than yourself in your full glory. So yes you in your full glory(the transcendent one.) is one of your enemy but separate from the enemies three. And it can't be pharod because and i quote "Given life and twisted by the laws of the planes.", pharod is mortal, mortals are born OF the prime not OF the (outer)planes, even if we was born in Sigil. The three the developers mentioned fit the prophecy all are planar creatures, and all have been twisted from there natural state by those same laws.

All partymembers but Morte are registered as neutral. I can get Morte's chaotic side, but I don't get how he's registered as Good. For example, I find Fall-From-Grace to be more benevolent than Morte and she's Lawful Neutral.

If The Nameless One wills himself out of existence, his companions will keep being dead. What happens with Fall From Grace in this case? She's a demon. Will she be banished back to the abyss and meeting demons who are not too happy of her non-evil behavor?

[[folder: Morte's alignment]]
All partymembers but Morte are registered as neutral. I can get Morte's chaotic side, but I don't get how he's registered as Good. For example, I find Fall-From-Grace to be more benevolent than Morte and she's Lawful Neutral.
[[/folder]]

* Why is there no armor or shields available? There are plenty of weapons available, including axes, clubs, daggers, [[EggsBreadMilkSquick severed limbs]], and this is a society in which such weapons get used to resolve disputes on a fairly regular basis, which would suggest that people would realize the value of armor and shields pretty quickly. And clearly Sigil is a society with the capability to manufacture armor. The Mercykillers clearly wear armor. So why can't you buy a suit of armor or a shield for the Nameless One?

***** As neat as that would be... no. Remember that that ending, although the best and most fulfilling one, is just ''one'' of the possible endings.
***** This Troper has a vague memory of the novelization [[DisContinuity that does not exist]]) that mentions that the unspeakable crime that The Original Nameless One made was a deal with Fhjull. SO maybe the three is linked to the original. Fhjull was the reason that you ''seeked'' immortality; Rhavel is the one that ''gave'' you immortality and Trias... ''damn'', that was almost something.

<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>

*** Actually, that quest does have a fairly significant bit to it, as it explains who Yemeth was and what the pendant did. The pendant is supposed to make its wearer immortal by using the energies of captured souls. Yemeth wanted to be immortal, but didn't want to become a lich, so he made the pendant as an alternative. The fact that it's the last name displayed on the tomb and that the original incarnation said he had committed horrible atrocities, it isn't too much of a stretch to say that Yemeth was the Nameless One's first incarnation. Obviously, though, that would mean the pendant didn't work -- or perhaps he tried to destroy it after realizing that it was [[{{Understatement}} kind of]] on the Evil side of the scale?

[[WMG: You shall meet enemies three...]]

** This Troper always assumed that it was [[LawfulGood Trias]], [[ChaoticNeutral Ravel]] and [[LawfulEvil Pharos]], and '''nothing''' can convince him otherwise. Oh, and to respond to the one above that claimed that "Him Self" was one of the three, that is wrong. Him Self was mentioned in the prophecy. The full quote went "You shall meet Enemies Three, but none of ''them more powerfull than you self in your full glory''..."

*** None more dangerous than yourself in your full glory. So yes you in your full glory(the transcendent one.) is one of your enemy but separate from the enemies three. And it can't be pharod because and i quote "Given life and twisted by the laws of the planes.", pharod is mortal, mortals are born OF the prime not OF the (outer)planes, even if we was born in sigil. The three the developers mentioned fit the prophecy all are planar creatures, and all have been twisted from there natural state by those same laws.
**** SO Trias is a LawfulGood being but has been twisted into evil due to [[KnightTemplar higher goal]], Rhavel is Chaotic but is fiercely loyal to the (idea) of the Nameless One, and XXXX is evil but does good because of.... Why? and Who? Help me here, I have pondered this question for like a decade. Or maybe it is Fhjull, a extra-planar who does "good" (e.g. help you) because of a curse. But that is a let-down, so [[MythBusters lets ignore that reality and replace it with our own!]] Wait, Pharod loved his daughter and love is a un-evil act. Throw me a bone here!

[[WMG: Xachariah]]
So what about the archer guy? They mentioned him a bit right before we entered the Fortess, and that's that? I'd've loved to know more about him.

[[WMG: Total recall?]]

[[WMG: You should check the skeletons im *my* closet...]]

[[WMG: Clap your hands if you believe]]

** It also *is* possible to become a RealityWarper in the Planescape setting. See the Nameless One arguing someone out of existence, [[spoiler: figuring out that, by believing he can make himself cease to exist, he can,]] oh, and lets not forget ''magic'' which is not just possible but ''ubiquitous'' in every D&D worldsetting ever and ultimately amounts to someone causing their belief about how the universe should be to come to pass through sheer force of will. Most people just don't have the force of personality/ enlightenment to attain this.

** tl;dr on this subject: The most evident example of how the ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve effect of the planes works is when Crust [[spoiler: plane-shifts into Carceri]] because of the chaos unleashed in town. You have to re-balance the events [[spoiler:in town]] in order to keep things from further falling apart because everyone's collective understanding of their surroundings is changing and you need to change them back. This means that there's an invisible system of "Paradigm vs Paradigm" that is never truly explained in-game or anywhere for that matter, where the presiding paradigm of a local area's population defines its shape and substance.

[[WMG: Cool swords?]]

[[WMG: The ending.]]

[[WMG: Miraculous Morte]]
* If you ask Kimasxi Adder-Tongue from the Brothel of Slating Intellectual Lusts to teach Morte to be more abusive... Morte ''waggles his eyebrows at her.'' The floating skull ''WAGGLES HIS EYEBROWS.'' I'd say YouFailBiologyForever but it's almost certainly intentional.

[[WMG: Overshadowing Planescape]]

[[WMG: Deal With The Dustmen]]

[[WMG: Ignus's Alignment]]

[[WMG: The Good Incarnation's Death]]

[[WMG: Yemeth]]

*** Actually, that quest does have a fairly significant bit to it, as it explains who Yemeth was and what the pendant did. The pendant is supposed to make its wearer immortal by using the energies of captured souls. Yemeth wanted to be immortal, but didn't want to become a lich, so he made the pendant as an alternative. The fact that it's the last name displayed on the tomb and that the original incarnation said he had committed horrible atrocities, it isn't too much of a stretch to say that Yemeth was the Nameless One's first incarnation. Obviously, though, that would mean the pendant didn't work -- or perhaps he tried to destroy it after realizing that it was [[{{Understantement}} kind of]] on the Evil side of the scale?

* The entire point is that the characters are "twisted", we have Fjhull (evil but doing good) Trias (good but doing evil) and Ravel (...complicated) They all hold pieces of information that you need.

*** Actually, that quest does have a fairly significant bit to it, as it explains who Yemeth was and what the pendant did. The pendant is supposed to make its wearer immortal by using the energies of captured souls. Yemeth wanted to be immortal, but didn't want to become a lich, so he made the pendant as an alternative. The fact that it's the last name displayed on the tomb and that the original incarnation said he had committed horrible atrocities, it isn't too much of a stretch to say that Yemeth was the Nameless One's first incarnation. Obviously, though, that would mean the pendant didn't work -- or perhaps he tried to destroy it after realizing that it was [[{{Understantement kind of]] on the Evil side of the scale?

[[Yemeth]]

** I'd rather say that Paranoid is Chaotic Neutral and Practical Neutral Evil. Our current incarnation is absolutely horrified when witnessing actions of the latter in Private Sensorium (i.e. his betrayal of Deionarra). Heck, he even made Nameless One [[HeroicBSOD CRY]] (I don't know if it happens during evil playthrough though).

** I'd rather say that Paranoid is Chaotic Neutral and Practical Neutral Evil. Our current incarnation is absolutely horrified when witnessing actions of the latter in Private Sensorium (i.e. his betrayal of Deionarra). Heck, he even made Nameless One [[HeroicBSOD CRY]]. (I don't know if it happens during evil playthrough though).