History Headscratchers / Persona5

** Because Joker lives in her dad's shop. She already had bugs installed in Leblanc so she could look after Sojiro in her own way. It was only a matter of time until she heard the crew say something that would tip her off to their activities and their real names. From there, she investigated on her own, probably to determine if they were a threat to Sojiro. When she was satisfied that they weren't, she decided to sit on that info for the moment as a curiosity, having no reason to turn them in. She only decided to blackmail them with it when she was desperate for their help. The government couldn't do the same because had no idea what to look for. Futaba just happened to be in the perfect situation to get information nobody else had with knowledge of her mother's research to understand the implications of it.
*** For the Sae part, she never tried anything of the sort because she honestly didn't suspect Makoto, as shown by her reaction both too the revelation's that she was involved with the PT's case and that she had even joined them.
* Shido had a meeting with (at least some of) his conspirators at the Wilton on May 5 (presumably about Kamoshida's confession, based on what the protagonist and Morgana overheard from them), and the principal of Shujin (one of Shido's conspirators) told Makoto to investigate Kamoshida's sudden change of heart the next day. But the SIU director (another conspirator) only seemed to come to the conclusion that Kamoshida's confession was caused by a change of heart on May 16. Why the 11-day difference? Shouldn't the SIU director's monologue about Kamoshida's confession have happened before or at about the same time as Shido's meeting, rather than nearly two weeks after?

* Why does the Phantom Thieves trust Morgana? We know he's trustworthy, but in the perspective of Ryuji and Joker, Morgana was introduced (likely) captured by Kamoshida's shadows, after which he speaks about changing the hearts of the wicked adults, which by the end of Kamoshida's boss fight, reveals that even ''he'' wasn't sure that changing the heart will work and the Phantom Thieves may have even killed him.

* Does Yaldabaoth's influence extend only to Tokyo, or is he actually the representative of the entire humanity's desire of getting controlled?

** If the real Akechi survived, the first thing he would do after leaving the Metaverse would be to leave Tokyo, to get as far away from Shido as possible. Indeed, the next time we see him in ''Royal'' (if it's really him) is outside of Tokyo.

* Shido had a meeting with (at least some of) his conspirators at the Wilton on May 5, and the principal of Shujin (one of Shido's conspirators) told Makoto to investigate Kamoshida's sudden change of heart the next day. But the SIU director (another conspirator) only seemed to come to the conclusion that Kamoshida's confession was caused by a change of heart on May 16. Why the 11-day difference? Shouldn't the SIU director's monologue about Kamoshida's confession have happened before or at about the same time as Shido's meeting, rather than nearly two weeks after?

** Because Joker lives in her dad's shop. She already had bugs installed in Leblanc. It was only a matter of time until she heard them crew say something that would tip her off to their activities and their real names. From there, she investigated on her own and to determine if they were a threat to Sojiro. When she was satisfied that they weren't, she just sat on the info as a curiosity, having no reason to turn them in. She only threatened to do so when she needed their help. The government couldn't do the same because had no idea what to look for. Futaba just happened to be in the perfect situation to get information nobody else had with knowledge of her mother's research to understand the implications of it.

** First, the school roof had already been considered a hot-spot due to the previous incident(not to mention Makoto already becomes suspicious of the trio after Kamoshida's incident).Second, Yusuke is NOT from Shujin Academy, holding meeting up there will only makes it even more suspicious. Third, subway may be a better place due to the fact that majority of the public disregards the notion of Phantom Thieves. Talking about it in public is no more than jibberish to adults. Therefore, the meeting spot is not only sensible and convinent, but also effective at preventing eavesdropping due to the noise.

** The power source of summoning persona power is hatred and animosity. In the cutscene mentioned above, Makoto was facing armies of guards and attempting to fight a way out. Also, the curise ship sinking had already caught them off-guard. With all the distractions and lack of will to fight, it would be impossible to summon persona as they ran out of "mana" to do so.

* Why the hell is the Principal in on the big conspiracy? Sure, we know the Black Mask visited the other palaces, but if Kamoshida was ever a person of interest to the higher-ups in the conspiracy it's never mentioned, so it can't be because of that. Just why the hell are these super powerful men with tons of resources at their disposal hounding a principal who's so useless he has to make the student council president do his dirtywork?

** In addition to buying off the woman Shido harassed, and having the police sweep the whole under the rug, the Conspiracy would also need to keep an eye on the other witness to make sure he didn't go around trying to give his account. Possibly paying the principle to let Joker be transferred and keep an eye on him for them. Its never explained just why the principle went out of his way to allow someone with a criminal record into his school when nowhere else would take him after all.

** Also, P2 and the ''Arena'' games make it clear that Shido's cronies are ''nowhere'' near the first government officials to be aware of Personas, Shadows, etc., and the power they hold. Wakaba's research probably wasn't the only Collective Unconscious-related project the Japanese government was pursing.
** Can you imagine what the government could do if they know how control cognitions? They might use it on other national leaders or important figureheads and turn any negotitaions to their favor. If anyone what to interfere other countries's politics, this is the safest, and the most effective way.

** The game seems to say that Yaldabaoth was born from humanity's desires and he subsquently created the Metaverse around him. The other final bosses in the previous Persona games were created the same way, through humanity's unconscious desires.

** I, too, wonder this.Akechi pulls his phone from his pocket when it rings. There's nothing on the podium. Makoto has a clear head-to-toe view of him the whole time, so he can't be doing anything. He's also using both hands to e.g. gesture, lean on the podium, point at Joker when he's like "oh, you want to know who I think they are?", etc. - but of course, he's also wearing gloves.We see him from from the side opposite Makoto when the phone rings - so he doesn't trigger anything surreptitious with that hand. Then again, if it's very surreptitious (e.g. a button in his glove) there's a textbox in the way.There is a clock in the gym, but it's on the wall beside the stage, out of Akechi's line of sight. The anime artbook indicates that there's no clock on the back wall.Makoto is asking the questions, but Akechi prompts her, very obviously, to ask him who the Phantom Thieves are. "You're not going to ask me who they are?" It's an impressive, and probably very simple, piece of stage trickery. And it's a fact that it's exactly five minutes and one second from when Makoto starts to speak to the phone call. That suggests a timer. Akechi also slows his rate of speech quite noticeably in the runup to the call - that suggests to me that, with his hook safely baited, he's now trying to run out that five-minute clock. I don't think he's working with an accomplice - that's not his style, and e.g. Kobayakawa, who might have obliged but probably couldn't be trusted, is dead at this point. My preliminary guess would be that he schedules the call himself, and has some kind of time check (e.g. quiet vibration alarms) set on his phone to keep him on schedule. "the call will occur at the five-minute mark, and you've now been talking for one minute, two minutes, three minutes, four minutes, four minutes 10 seconds..." Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if he has some astonishing inner time sense. The simplest solution is that he has a button hidden in his right glove (opposite Makoto), which will trigger his phone to ring. But that precise five-minute timestamp is suspicious as hell.

** This actually explains a lot. It's not that he's not doing laundry/taking a bath...it's that he's taking a LONG bath, or thrwoing in ADDITIONAL laundry that he couldn't clean otherwise. The bathhouse gives you a bonus because you spend HOURS soaking. The laundromat takes time because you're throwing in additional clothes you didn't have room for, that are COVERED in mud, to the point you can't tell what they were!

** The truth is probably simpler. A sizable chunk of the shadows the Phantom Thieves fight against don't have human proporitons, which would render a lot of Makoto's Aikido training useless. Any competent self-defense course will strive for basic proficiency in all areas of combat, so Makoto is almost certain to understand the basics of striking an opponent, which would be much more reliable.

** It's about the cognition of it; it's not so much that they think Crow's weapons are real as that they perceive them as a laser sword and as a ray gun, and they know that in fiction, a laser sword to the face is going to hurt, so they get hurt as if they were being hit by a (real) laser sword, and the fact that laser swords aren't a real thing is rendered irrelevant. The same logic is used to why Morgana can turn into a car. People know cats can't turn into vehicles, but [[Anime/MyNeighborTotoro works of fiction managed to make them perceive a cat becoming a vehicle as a possiblity]].

*** Going off on a limb here but whose to say that all of those officers are even real? Akechi could've dropped a tip to Sae's ''cognition'' of the police. Everything and everyone outside of the courthouse is un-distorted, so Akechi could've dropped a tip to the Cognitive Police who responded like the real ones would. Then after they caught Joker, he had a few cronies who he actually did bring in from the real world grab him and take him back.

** Having a Persona gives someone clarity, with a better hold on their feelings and emotions. Makoto knows deep down that shes not really afraid of the dark. When shes with Johanna in the other world she realizes that.

*** Madarame was an artist alongside Kawanabe, but he didn’t become famous until the Sayuri, which Yusuke's mother made. It's clear that he didn't make it this far on his own merits.

** Another theory is that Kawakami, in an attempt to keep her "lives" seperate from each other, has the protagonist listed as an emergency contact on her "Delivery Maid Health" phone, as the protagonist is aware of both "sides" of her life and is unlikely to extort "favors" from her, as the protagonist is pretty much the equivalent of a guy who hires an escort for company rather than "company", if you catch my drift. Royal adds phone conversations that take place on the doorstep of Leblanc, meaning that Kawakami knows the protagonist's personal phone number, either from the initial contact with the "Maid Health" agency or from the ludicrous amount of information Japanese schoolteachers appear to be allowed to have access to.

** It's stated that Sae Nijima was pulling strings behind the scenes to keep the deception going as long as possible.

** The probably wouldn't believe Joker's story about the Metaverse. Its more likely that he corroborated Shido's confession. Using details and facts that only he as the leader of the Phantom Thieves would know.

*** Despite having popularity Makoto had the stigma of being “Principal Kobayakawa’s stooge” and Haru outright stated she had a hard time trusting if people genuinely liked her or were just using her so intentionally kept people at arms length, so were just as big of outcasts as the others.

** Let's not forget that the Thieves know Shido's accomplices are now aware of their last escape plan and have lost both Aketchi and Shido himself. So the conspiracy sees them as their number one threat and will not give them the chance to pull off another miraculous escape. They know that the entire group will soon be targeted and almost certainly killed in the real world at some point all too soon. They have no chance of tracking down and changing the hearts of enough of the members to make them back off before the conspiracy could have them all hunted down. The pressure was on like never before, so they decided to go for broke and pull their biggest heist immediately because they can't be sure when the inevitable real world attacks will come.

** Futaba likely wanted control of her own mind, as she subconciously knew the truth about her mother's death, but was plagued by distortions and hallucinations.

*** Obviously, since the story literally explains that he is trying to compete with Shido for presidency. Sugimura was probably the son of some influental politican that can allow Okumura to compete with Shido easily.

*** Kasumi is said to have transfered to Shujin very close to the time the MC did. Maybe Kamoshida hasn't had a chance to approach her or see her as a target because he's focused on Ann and the Volleyball team at the time. It also becomes FridgeHorror when you consider she easily could have become a target later on when she starts underperforming if he had stayed in the school.

** To top it all off, Sumire herself isn't as bad as she thinks she is; She's still capable of getting somewhere in the top 10, implying that she does get screentime on TV. This would make unnecessary hassles around Shujin Academy that would most defintely expose Kobayakawa or Kamoshida and speed up their demise.
** Do not forget that the Yoshizawa twins' father is influental and not just some nobody; He hosts a rather famous talk show. This might be the reason why Kamoshida also never bothers with Haru or Makoto because they have respectively connections with massive enterprises and the police force, which again will make them more subsceptible to removal because it betrays all facades of secrecy. It's only people who are nobodies such as Shiho or Mishima who get ruined and not the big names for good reasons.

** Her Navigator seems to always have the white color scheme and multicolored transition effect that normally only appears in the third semester. Given that is also censored the name of the Palace's ruler, it's likely another of Maruki's "gifts". Like her thief costume and the false Cendrillon, it's part of the "I wish I could be like Senpai/my sister" desire he granted with his growing powers and Yaldy had nothing to do with it since she was irrelevant to his game.

** It becomes a bit easier to wave off if one believes Sumire is deep in grief, and pretending to be Kasumi as a sort of coping mechanism. The students gossiping around her and her father both seem to treat her this way. Add in the fact that Maruki's there, both to continue counseling her and to explain her erratic behavior to the school staff, and the school has a plausable excuse should someone raise the question.

* How is it Shido is unable to identify Joker as the juvenile he framed less than a year ago, but recognize Akechi as being the son of a woman he had sex with over 15 years ago due to their UncannyFamilyResemblance. While he may have been drunk at the time of the assault, wouldn't he have had to at least seen Joker's face once again during the cover-up process. Or was this another bureaucratic indiscretion like in interrogration where they just pushed the paperwork through as quickly as possible without double checking things first?

* Why does an extremely prestigious and uptight school, allow Ryuji to wear a shirt that says "No Mo' Rules" as part of its offical school uniform?

* How did no one throughout the course of the story noticed the supposedly lost Sayuri in the middle of some local cafe? In real life, atleast one person would notice if the bagel shop they went to suddenly had a painting of The Concert by Vermeer hanging up. While it could be considered a recreation, it would be considered a very good recreation, especially for a lost paining.

** 1) Leblanc isn't exactly known for being a cultural hot spot. Of the few regular customers we see, exactly one is known to have an eye for fine arts, and that's the guy who donated the painting to begin with. 2) Even if they did recognize it as the Saiyuri, remember that the public has only ever seen the version Madarame altered. To anyone looking at the "original" version hanging it Leblanc, it just looks like a strangely high quality replica that replaced the clouds with a baby for some reason. It would be a classier version of a greasy spoon diner with a framed Mona Lisa holding a dog or a football: something "clearly" fake, not worthy of further attention. Even if they put two and two together about Yusuke being Madarame's former pupil also hanging around it, he could easily pass it off as his own work imitating his old teacher's crowning achievement with a twist as practice and move on.

* When you first infiltrate Madarame's Palace, Morgana treats it as if they still aren't sure if Madarame is someone they need to work on. Is the Palace itself not evidence enough that he's doing some heinous stuff behind the scenes, whether it's plagarism or not? Ryuji even says the fact he HAS a Palace is sketchy enough as it is, it's not like extremely good-natured people would have Palaces, but Morgana is basically walking into a criminal's hideout and says he's not sure if this is legit.

* In the beginning, as the Protagonsist is being interrogated and tortured by the cops, why did they say that the camera will not be used as evidence?

** Simple. Shido promised them wealth, utopia and connections as long as they're loyal to him. He doesn't deliver of course but who cares. Akechi is there because Shido needed someone to do dirty work with and the boy needed to kill for Shido as a [[TheStarscream starscream]] plot, plus the conspiracy doesn't establish itself without Akechi executing people on orders to begin with.

* You know I kind of am confused about why Okumura thought of his corporate hq as outer space. I mean all the other palaces make sense: Kamoshida saw Shujin as his castle because he was allowed to do whatever he wanted, Madarame saw his pupils as his “artwork”, Kaneshiro saw everyone in Shibuya as someone he could take money from, Futaba thought she was going to die in Sojiro’s house, Shido thought of Japan as directionless and wanted to steer it however he wanted, and Maruki thought of the stadium as a lab because well it was originally going to be. I don’t know what mental quantum leap caused Okumura to think of his place of business as outer space. I get he’s a space otaku but is it all there is to it?

*** They cannot -- it's all bluffing. You cannot imagine a group of people who can't even check for a corpse somehow using the Congitive World to mass mind control people (that's what the Holy Grail does on its own) or even to any creatively destructive degree. The main problem is that the thieves will get arrested and executed if they don't reach the Grail in time whenever the mass mind control happens.