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* In ''Garou Saga'', Ryn Ap Bleidd and Writlish are among the few Garou who are getting close to uncovering the Garou's Ur-legends (and by extension, the ancestor spirits common to all Garou). After Ryn Ap Bleidd is subjected to the Hunt, Writlish is left as one of the only scholars with any leads on the Ur-legends. If Writlish successfully contacts an Ur-ancestor, he will probably do everything in his power to turn the ancestor into a Wyrm servant. Since corrupted ancestor spirits can taint living Garou, a Wyrm-tainted ancestor could do serious harm to ''all'' Gaia Garou.

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* In ''Garou Saga'', Ryn Ap Bleidd and Writlish are among the few Garou who are getting close to uncovering the Garou's Ur-legends (and by extension, the ancestor spirits common to all Garou). After Ryn Ap Bleidd is subjected to the Hunt, Writlish is left as one of the only scholars with any leads on the Ur-legends. If Writlish successfully contacts an Ur-ancestor, he will probably do everything in his power to turn the ancestor into a Wyrm servant. Since corrupted ancestor spirits can taint living Garou, a Wyrm-tainted ancestor could do serious harm to ''all'' Gaia Garou.Garou.

[[AC:FridgeLogic]]

* The Delirium is the excuse for the ExtraStrengthMasquerade in-setting: mortals who see a werewolf freak out and lose their memory of the event. One wonders whether werewolf movies exist in the World of Darkness, and if they do, if they involve the audience going nuts and/or passing out. Even if horror movies like the ones we know aren't close enough to "real" werewolves to trigger Delirium, what about security camera footage of real transformed Garou or the like? If that knocks out viewers, then any entity that gets their hands on such a recording has a handy-dandy disable-and-drive-crazy movie on their hands to show to people that get in their way, similar to Monty Python's Funniest Joke In The World. If something about the recording process means it doesn't knock out viewers, does this mean that Pentex guards just need to be distributed electronic visors to be able to see werewolves with and not be rendered helpless? The fridge can potentially be quite deep here...


* In ''Garou Saga'', Bone Gnawer Jack Debiltongue has an affair with Constance, the kinfolk wife of Silver Fang King Phillip de Valence. Jack and his lover suffer no consequences for their adultery in the story. However, the tale becomes darker in retrospect when one remembers that the Silver Fangs are obsessed with the purity of their bloodlines. According to the revised Silver Fang tribebook, kinfolk who couple with partners outside of the tribe are [[HonorRelatedAbuse killed or sterilized]]. Constance probably suffered a violent fate for sleeping with a Bone Gnawer.

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* In ''Garou Saga'', Bone Gnawer Jack Debiltongue has an affair with Constance, the kinfolk wife of Silver Fang King Phillip de Valence. Jack and his lover suffer no consequences for their adultery in the story. However, the tale becomes darker in retrospect when one remembers that the Silver Fangs are obsessed with the purity of their bloodlines. According to the revised Silver Fang tribebook, kinfolk who couple with partners outside of the tribe are [[HonorRelatedAbuse killed or sterilized]]. Constance probably suffered a violent fate for sleeping with a Bone Gnawer.Gnawer.
* In ''Garou Saga'', Ryn Ap Bleidd and Writlish are among the few Garou who are getting close to uncovering the Garou's Ur-legends (and by extension, the ancestor spirits common to all Garou). After Ryn Ap Bleidd is subjected to the Hunt, Writlish is left as one of the only scholars with any leads on the Ur-legends. If Writlish successfully contacts an Ur-ancestor, he will probably do everything in his power to turn the ancestor into a Wyrm servant. Since corrupted ancestor spirits can taint living Garou, a Wyrm-tainted ancestor could do serious harm to ''all'' Gaia Garou.



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* Throughout history, the Garou Nation has repeatedly undermined Gaia's cause with short-sighted violence (the Impergium, the War of Rage, the genocide of the Bunyip etc.). The Garou's history of violence and bad decision-making is a direct result of their leadership culture. In most tribes, leadership disputes are settled with ritual combat, meaning that aggressive Garou are more likely than diplomatic or wise Garou to rise to leadership positions. The Garou Nation made foolish, bloody mistakes throughout history because it was being led by its most violent and ferocious members, not its smartest members.


** [[NewWorldOfDarkness It was]].

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** [[NewWorldOfDarkness [[TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness It was]].


*** Exactly (to the immediate above) - the basic reason they are BOTH insane is because they achieved consciousness. Supernals - basic forces of Nature - are not supposed to be "aware" of anything, they're supposed to be spiritual machines that run the Universe. It was the nature of the Weaver's work that Awakened Her Mind, so to speak, and it was upon becoming aware at what see saw as the ultimate futility of her job that caused the mental breakdown of a mind that wasn't supposed to exist in the first place. The Wyrm's mind awoke when being trapped "happened" to it, and it "felt" something for the first time.

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*** Exactly (to the immediate above) - the basic reason they are BOTH insane is because they achieved consciousness. Supernals - basic forces of Nature - are not supposed to be "aware" of anything, they're supposed to be spiritual machines that run the Universe. It was the nature of the Weaver's work that Awakened Her Mind, so to speak, and it was upon becoming aware at what see she saw as the ultimate futility of her job that caused the mental breakdown of a mind that wasn't supposed to exist in the first place. The Wyrm's mind awoke when being trapped "happened" to it, and it "felt" something for the first time.


*** Exacty - the basic reason they are BOTH insane is because they achieved consciousness. Supernals - basic forces of Nature - are not supposed to be "aware" of anything, they're supposed to be spiritual machines that run the Universe. It was the nature of the Weaver's work that Awakened Her Mind, so to speak, and it was upon becoming aware at what see saw as the ultimate futility of her job that caused the mental breakdown of a mind that wasn't supposed to exist in the first place. The Wyrm's mind awoke when being trapped "happened" to it, and it "felt" something for the first time.

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*** Exacty Exactly (to the immediate above) - the basic reason they are BOTH insane is because they achieved consciousness. Supernals - basic forces of Nature - are not supposed to be "aware" of anything, they're supposed to be spiritual machines that run the Universe. It was the nature of the Weaver's work that Awakened Her Mind, so to speak, and it was upon becoming aware at what see saw as the ultimate futility of her job that caused the mental breakdown of a mind that wasn't supposed to exist in the first place. The Wyrm's mind awoke when being trapped "happened" to it, and it "felt" something for the first time.

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***Exacty - the basic reason they are BOTH insane is because they achieved consciousness. Supernals - basic forces of Nature - are not supposed to be "aware" of anything, they're supposed to be spiritual machines that run the Universe. It was the nature of the Weaver's work that Awakened Her Mind, so to speak, and it was upon becoming aware at what see saw as the ultimate futility of her job that caused the mental breakdown of a mind that wasn't supposed to exist in the first place. The Wyrm's mind awoke when being trapped "happened" to it, and it "felt" something for the first time.

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** [[NewWorldOfDarkness It was]].


* In ''Garou Saga'', Bone Gnawer Jack Debiltongue has an affair with the kinfolk fiancee of a Silver Fang Garou. Jack and his lover suffer no consequences for their adultery in the story, but remember that the Silver Fangs are obsessed with the purity of their bloodlines. According to the revised Silver Fang tribebook, kinfolk who couple with partners outside of the tribe are [[HonorRelatedAbuse killed or sterilized]]. Jack Debiltongue's lover probably suffered a violent fate for sleeping with a Bone Gnawer.

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* In ''Garou Saga'', Bone Gnawer Jack Debiltongue has an affair with Constance, the kinfolk fiancee wife of a Silver Fang Garou. King Phillip de Valence. Jack and his lover suffer no consequences for their adultery in the story, but remember story. However, the tale becomes darker in retrospect when one remembers that the Silver Fangs are obsessed with the purity of their bloodlines. According to the revised Silver Fang tribebook, kinfolk who couple with partners outside of the tribe are [[HonorRelatedAbuse killed or sterilized]]. Jack Debiltongue's lover Constance probably suffered a violent fate for sleeping with a Bone Gnawer.


** Or Manson is dead in the WOD. Then again, the Seventh Generation was basically a Proto-Pentex and its destruction just means they can focus on the Big (Black) Dog in the room.

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** Or Manson is dead in the WOD. Then again, the Seventh Generation was basically a Proto-Pentex and its destruction just means they can focus on the Big (Black) Dog in the room.room.
* In ''Garou Saga'', Bone Gnawer Jack Debiltongue has an affair with the kinfolk fiancee of a Silver Fang Garou. Jack and his lover suffer no consequences for their adultery in the story, but remember that the Silver Fangs are obsessed with the purity of their bloodlines. According to the revised Silver Fang tribebook, kinfolk who couple with partners outside of the tribe are [[HonorRelatedAbuse killed or sterilized]]. Jack Debiltongue's lover probably suffered a violent fate for sleeping with a Bone Gnawer.


* In ''Chronicles of the Black Labyrinth'', Charles Manson was a Seventh Generation devotee. Manson was eventually imprisoned for his crimes, which would have assured his safety during King Albrecht's extermination of Seventh Generation followers. In other words, King Albrecht ''didn't'' wipe out the cult. Who is to say that the fictional Manson isn't recruiting Wyrm worshipers in prison?

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* In ''Chronicles of the Black Labyrinth'', Charles Manson was a Seventh Generation devotee. Manson was eventually imprisoned for his crimes, which would have assured his safety during King Albrecht's extermination of Seventh Generation followers. In other words, King Albrecht ''didn't'' wipe out the cult. Who is to say that the fictional Manson isn't recruiting Wyrm worshipers in prison?prison?
** Or Manson is dead in the WOD. Then again, the Seventh Generation was basically a Proto-Pentex and its destruction just means they can focus on the Big (Black) Dog in the room.


*** Not exactly. Although the Wyrm's struggling probably drives the Weaver even more insane, the whole reason the Weaver tried to imprison the Wyrm in the first place was because the Weaver was effectively having an existential crisis. Even if the Wyrm gets free and is healed, the underlying reasons why the Weaver imprisoned the Wyrm will go unaddressed, likely causing an EternalRecurrence.

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*** Not exactly. Although the Wyrm's struggling probably drives the Weaver even more insane, the whole reason the Weaver tried to imprison entrap the Wyrm in it's webs in the first place was because the Weaver was effectively having an existential crisis. Even if the Wyrm gets free and is healed, the underlying reasons why the Weaver imprisoned the Wyrm will go unaddressed, likely causing an EternalRecurrence.

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*** Not exactly. Although the Wyrm's struggling probably drives the Weaver even more insane, the whole reason the Weaver tried to imprison the Wyrm in the first place was because the Weaver was effectively having an existential crisis. Even if the Wyrm gets free and is healed, the underlying reasons why the Weaver imprisoned the Wyrm will go unaddressed, likely causing an EternalRecurrence.


** The Wyrm's madness is explicitly a result of the unending pain that comes from being trapped in the Weaver's web, and the Weaver's madness comes from the struggles of the Wyrm to escape that web. Without these, the Wyrm and the Weaver have no reason to remain mad. The Wyrm getting loose would, in time, result in the two returning to sanity and the universe to balance. Mind you, it's still a [[{{Understatement}} lousy place]] to be during the interim.

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** The Wyrm's madness is explicitly a result of the unending pain that comes from being trapped in the Weaver's web, and the Weaver's madness comes from the struggles of the Wyrm to escape that web. Without these, the Wyrm and the Weaver have no reason to remain mad. The Wyrm getting loose would, in time, result in the two returning to sanity and the universe to balance. Mind you, it's still a [[{{Understatement}} lousy place]] to be during the interim.interim.
* In ''Chronicles of the Black Labyrinth'', Charles Manson was a Seventh Generation devotee. Manson was eventually imprisoned for his crimes, which would have assured his safety during King Albrecht's extermination of Seventh Generation followers. In other words, King Albrecht ''didn't'' wipe out the cult. Who is to say that the fictional Manson isn't recruiting Wyrm worshipers in prison?


** The Wyrm's madness is explicitly a result of the unending pain that comes from being trapped in the Weaver's web. Without that, the Wyrm has no reason to remain mad. The Wyrm getting loose would, in time, result in it returning to sanity and the universe to balance. Mind you, it's still a [[{{Understatement}} lousy place]] to be during the interim.

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** The Wyrm's madness is explicitly a result of the unending pain that comes from being trapped in the Weaver's web, and the Weaver's madness comes from the struggles of the Wyrm to escape that web. Without that, these, the Wyrm has and the Weaver have no reason to remain mad. The Wyrm getting loose would, in time, result in it the two returning to sanity and the universe to balance. Mind you, it's still a [[{{Understatement}} lousy place]] to be during the interim.

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