This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Your Obedient Serpent: This is Truth in Television. I've seen it far too many times. There should be a note that the Martyr believes that her love and determination can Fix The Problems of the object of her affection, if she just tries HARD enough.
Solandra: Added that to the end of the entry.
Known Unknown: Just as a note, I genuinely applaud this trope for not falling into Complaining About Non Perfect Relationships We Dont Like, or complaining about how we don't think the token Bad Ass or Jerkass deserves a good relationship. Most of the examples aren't so much subjective as analytical.
Lale: What about examples who aren't Love Interests, like an extremely loyal Oblivious Younger Sibling or son of the "Well Done, Son" Guy?
Solandra: Sounds like a different but related trope about characteres devoted to insufferable or evil relatives or believing that they're not all that bad. Not so much as martyring themselves for love but valuing blood above all else. Examples fail to come to me right now, and something's telling me that it's more common for said character to be a love interest because nothing is as twisted as love, but I'm sure there's some out there. Blood Is Thicker Than Spirit? Family Devotee?
Lale: Family love can hurt, too.
Scrounge: Bulma and Vegeta, huh? So Trunks isn't what happens when you mix Saiyan, Bulma, and vodka?
Earnest: Huh. And here I thought it was Vegeta who put up with Bulma.
Solandra: I didn't add that example, and I know nothing about Dragonball, so I can't judge it.
Scrounge: Meh, I read a few chapters of the manga way back when, since it was in Viz's version of "Shonen Jump" and I was into Yu-Gi-Oh at the time. I don't know how much got dropped in translation or added in the anime, but basicly, Trunks comes from the future, kills the bad guy, goes back to the future, there's a time skip and baby Trunks is just suddenly there without any mention of how Bulma and Vegita hooked up. This leaves the whole damn thing open to interpretation, and since I don't really care that much and Dragon Ball doesn't seem like it'd tink much about people falling in love, I just applied Smirnoff's Razor.
- Known Unknown: Future Trunks does explain how his version of his parents got together (apparently, it just happened in a rush of passion after seeing each other one day (which really needs to be a trope)), and notes that they loved each other, but didn't get married and were really lax about it, which kind of fits both characters.
Solandra: Removed the Harley Quinn example because it's already on the Mad Love entry. The Love Martyr's unconditional love is presented positively in sticking with a person who otherwise wouldn't get it, while the Mad Lover's unconditional love is often presented as over-the-top to make them appear hopeless and/or crazy. Harley's obsessive love for the Joker fits better into the second category.
Lale: The animated series' Harley is more Mad Love, but would the comics' version be more Love Martyr? They do sometimes compare that one to Stockholm Syndrome.
Shire Nomad: Moved the Kurotsuchi example to Mad Love as well, unless someone can show evidence that Mayuri considers Nemu anything but a tool.
Removed this:
- The Disney Version of Beauty and the Beast. It's good to get women into the whole cycle of abuse thing while they're young.
Was the person who put this in watching the same cartoon?
Orihime : I also wonder the same thing. Because it's horrible to see a guy start as a Jerkass get Character Development and actually try to be a better person with the help of a someone else. If Belle had fallen for Gaston, who is a straight up Complete Monster, I'd agree, but Beast actually does get better for Belle's sake as he realizes he can't threaten, bitch and/or mistreat everyone to ger his way done. It falls in Love Redeems and not in Love Martyr, not to mention he falls for Belle because she doesn't take his bullshit.
Orihime : Removing the Ranma One Half example. How it's worded suggests that the example is less about Ranma being a Love Martyr and more about venomously bashing Akane for refusing to take his crap. Neutrality, PLEASE!
Removed the Emily example for the same reason as above - she was standing too close to an involuntary transformation, and she doesn't ever say anything whatsoever to imply she blames herself. Calling that particular injury abusive is akin to saying that falling down the stairs and landing on top of someone is an assault.
Barano: Removed the Gankutsuou example. I don't know what version of the show the troper watched but in the version I saw Albert wasn't anywhere close being a jerkass and he's got no psychological issues either. He's a 15 year old boy who is actually very nice and well-meaning, he's just temperamental and a bit immature. He didn't "snub" Franz because he's an asshole, he did so because he felt that Franz had betrayed him; and he remained oblivious of Franz's love for him because Franz had never told him anything and from what we see he'd never planned to. Just because Franz was in tragic, secret love with him it doesn't mean that Albert is a jerkass.
