This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
From YKTTW Working Title: Grande Dame
added: 2009-12-27 21:05:34 by Fanra In the movie Arthur, Arthur's grandmother Martha Bach. She demands that he marry Susan Johnson or she will cut off all his money.
added: 2009-12-27 23:16:48 by macroscopic •Pretty much the whole female cast of The Picture Of Dorian Gray besides Sybil Vane and her mother. •Cecania's mother from Sore Thumbs.
added: 2009-12-28 11:37:30 by Prfnoff Madame Armfeldt in A Little Night Music and most other parts played by Hermione Gingold.
added: 2009-12-28 11:43:33 by dotchan •Queen Elizabeth I and Queen Victoria are generally portrayed this way. •Judi Dench's version of M in James Bond, who manages to cow even the highly misogynistic secret agent himself. One of the funniest scenes in the franchise reboot is when Bond reveals that he's hacked into her personal files:
- Bond: I always thought M was a randomly assigned initial, I had no idea it stood for—M: Utter one more syllable and I'll have you killed.
added: 2010-01-06 05:44:57 by Fanra The following conversation may or may not have occurred but it is typical of a Grande Dame vs. a Deadpan Snarker:
- Bessie Braddock: Winston, you are drunk, and what's more, you are disgustingly drunk.Winston Churchill: Bessie, my dear, you are ugly, and what's more, you are disgustingly ugly. But tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be disgustingly ugly.
This exchange was confirmed to Richard Langworth by Ronald Golding, a bodyguard present on the occasion (as Churchill was leaving the House of Commons in 1946).
Note : In the 1934 movie It's a Gift, W.C. Field's character, when told he is drunk, responds, "Yeah, and you're crazy. But I'll be sober tomorrow and you'll be crazy the rest of your life."
added: 2010-01-06 08:06:17 by Frodo Goofball Co TV •The current Queen Elizabeth the II is also often portrayed his way in comedic depictions. In an episode of Animaniacs:
- Queen Elizabeth the II: We are NOT amused.Yakko, Wakko, and Dot: But we are!
•Lady St Edmund in Candleshoe is the sympathetic rich widow version; her butler hides the fact that she is an Impoverished Patrician for fear it would break her heart. However she's Obfuscating Stupidity and is actually a Genre Savvy grandmotherly type who's enjoying the game.
added: 2010-01-06 08:48:57 by Gemmifer The Grande Dame can also be played as a sympathetic and even heroic character. Then she's still stern, no Moral Guardian and no Saint. Instead she is someone who, beneath her make up and her dresses and jewelry possesses a chivalrous spirit, outdated and slightly comic but admirable. Basically, if worse comes to worse she's revealed to be indeed as self-possessed and generous as any of her great ancestors of whom she is always talking in fair times.
•I think in World War Z there is an example of the queen of England showing fighting spirit. It's mentioned in the tropes. •I also think, there is such a character in Titanic. •The grandmother of Mia from the The Princess Diaries is not an example of the heroic Grande Dame but she is very formidable.
added: 2010-01-06 09:26:09 by Tannhaeuser I agree with you, Gemmifer, in all except that you seem to take "saintly" to mean "sanctimonious"; by "saintly" I mean "heoically good." Sometimes she is an upholder of moral standards when they desperately need to be upheld — and in that case, no, not a Moral Guardian in the bad sense. Can you guys suggest how I might phrase that more clearly? (By the way, too much literary history? Should that be cut?)
added: 2010-01-06 10:26:31 by Gemmifer English is not my native language so maybe, Tannhaeuser, it's not you it's me;)
added: 2010-01-06 10:27:02 by JAF 1970 Margaret Dumont is the Trope Codifier.
added: 2010-01-06 10:59:25 by Reg Shoe Aunt Agatha in the Jeeves canon is as humourless an example as you can ever get. Most of Bertie's aunts (and indeed anyone referred to as aunt by anyone) fall in the boundaries of this trope, but many have senses of humour and redeeming qualities, such as Aunt Dahlia's dry witt and genuine (if at times unfathomable) affection for Bertie.
EDIT: I serched for Jeeves, you had used Wodehouse. Ah well.
added: 2010-01-06 19:33:23 by Camacan Video Games •Several female splicers in Bioshock invoke this trope: part Elizabeth Taylor in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, part Katharine Hepburn.
Western Animation •The Simpsons includes a recuring Grande Dame character, complete with glasses and fur scarf as per the lead image.
added: 2010-01-06 20:27:14 by Jordan Lady Bracknell from The Importance Of Being Earnest is one of the most famous examples, and is alluded to by the similar "Lady Shrapnell" in To Say Nothing Of The Dog. Interestingly, Mrs. Malaprop in the 18th century play The Rivals has a lot of this character type in her, making it Older Than They Think.
Another example- how about Hyacinth Bucket of Keeping Up Appearances?
added: 2010-01-07 01:38:54 by Tannhaeuser I had Lady Bracknell and Hyacinth before, Jordan, and am delighted to find you seconding them. Your Mrs. Malaprop example I put into the page description.
Can you find out the name of that Simpsons example, Camacan? I'd like to be as exact as possible, and I love the fact that you found a good animation example.
Does anyone know of any Anime And Manga uses?
Yeah, Reg, Aunt Agatha is the Ueber-Example of the trope, which Wodehouse clearly adored.
Wow, Gemmifer — you speak exceptionally good English for a non-native, much better than many native speakers I have read. I honestly had no idea — thought it was purely a question of semantics. I take it, then, that the description is all right?
I think we ought to be pretty close to launch now. Any suggestions, anyone?
added: 2010-01-07 02:33:16 by Camacan @Tannhaeuser I'm sorry about the name: I googled for some time and found almost nothing. I've seen her many times but could find no definite name and no picture. I turned up "Lady Carstairs" — that may be her, it may be a prototype character. Can anyone help out?
BTW does anyone know the name of those glasses on a stick — and is a fur scarf called simply that or is there a proper name? It's more than a scarf — I guess they are simply called a "fur"?
added: 2010-01-07 03:10:34 by Tannhaeuser The glasses on a stick are called a "lorgnette" (pronounced "lorn-yet"). Fur cut in that manner is generally called a "stole."
Gemmifer: Thank you, Tannhäuser. The description is also very thorough and good. The literary history adds quality and is no distraction.
