This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Darmok: Lennier seems more of a Tragic Hero than an outright Heel to me. He never sided with the Shadows, the Drakh, the Psi Corps, the Vorlons, or anyone else you might consider "bad". (Recall that a major part of Straczynski's writing was designed to blur the lines between the good/bad divide - it's all about ideologies. And none of these are inherently evil, it's just that some have more appeal than others.)
Lale: Took out the "happens less frequently than the Heel–Face Turn" because, well, is that true?
Zeke: I've removed two examples which I think are dubious:
- Angel on Buffy, because the Heel was Angelus, not Angel himself.
- Wesley on Angel, because a Heel–Face Turn is more than just a betrayal, it's a decision to go evil. Wes did something stupid, but with the best intentions. Even Angel recognized that after he had a few months underwater to calm down.
Willy Four Eyes: Removed the following entry:
- Battlestar Galactica: Boomer
- This Troper mentions that it's really a case of unwitting Mole, since it's later revealed she's a Cylon.
zero29: Cut the Vegeta from DBZ entry, cause insulting any audience doesn't belong here. Also, Vegeta keeps his selfish, power-hungry attitude all the time, changing sides when it seems neccessary to himself. He only seems to care about family members and fighting companions (well, sometimes). So basically, i don't think he's a fitting example.
I'll paste the complete entry here, if someone disagrees with my cut:
- Vegeta in Dragonball Z who was admittedly already a Heel–Face Turn and technically, just returning to his original alignment only to go through yet another Heel–Face Turn after the showdown of rivals although not before sucker punching The Hero, Goku. This whole arc also has the bonus of being a mid-life crisis as well as being a Not Brainwashed moment. Come to think of it, he is probably the one character in that entire series to do as many alignment changes as a pro wrestler
, which considering the audience, is not that surprising.
Wascally Wabbit: Can we really call what sephiroth went throught a face hell turn? He was already The Dragon to president Shinra, it's a transition from bad to worse.
Puffy Treat: Yet another remark that Tai Lung's rampage was possibly justified. While I can see him having some justifiable anger against his masters, the fact that he worked his anger and pain out by attacking the people of the Valley of Peace, who had nothing to do with the decision shows that the judgment against him possibly had some merit? If anything, it shows he really didn't care a thing about the people he was "destined" to protect.
Count Dorku: Is there any reason there's a Quotes page, but nothing in it?
John DiFool: Is it just me, or when I first heard the names of these tropes (FET & HFT), that I thought they were a drill sergeant allusions? "About face", heel turns and all that?
