There is something I had been wanting to add to the No Yay section, but I wonder if there's another trope for it.
I wanted to add that the fandom (or a chunk of it at least) has an issue with people doing certain ships, and I am not just talking about Stolas and Octavia as a ship. I had seen people get pissed over any incest ship in general, getting pissed that Stolas is shipped with a woman character (canon or otherwise), or ships with canonical abusers (Stolas and Stella for example).
Also, is there a trope for when fans gets very defensive over a character? Because the amount of people who would get mad if anyone did a NSFW of Octavia is crazy.
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Huh, that might work. Thanks for the response (totally forgot about this lol)
(Accidentally clicked save before posting all my reasons on removing unintentionally sympathetic for Striker)
The claim about Stolas only seeing Blitzo as a plaything is incorrect since, in the very same episode that is used as an example, Stolas is shown trying to make a more fair exchange with Blitzo.
Striker killing nobles doesn’t make things better for Imps, so his own point is undermined.
Blitzo agreeing with Striker is clearly shown to just be a distracting bluff
At best, this entry counts more for Strawman Has a Point
Wanted to check before I posted this to Hilarious in Hindsight. Cletus' comment of "Guess you did something go to get here" from C.H.E.R.U.B. takes new meaning with the discovery that not even Angels know what gets a soul into Heaven in this universe. Any arguments against posting it?
Edited by ztyran
[[Music/BlueStahli ULTRANumb]]
This was added to the YMMV page for Helluva Boss S2E2 "Seeing Stars", but I figured I'd bring it here since it more accurately would belong on the main YMMV page:
- Arc Fatigue: Some in the fandom feel that some overarching character stories are beginning to overstay their welcome.
- Loona's continuing ambivalence about Blitzo, while partly clarified that she thinks of him as meaning well, but consistently fucks up and her constant swinging between affection and anger hasn't changed much from the last episode in which her relationship with him was a focus. It probably doesn’t help that she seems to be falling victim to status quo; her heartwarming speech to Octavia about cutting their fathers some slack is practically undone by just going back to beating up Blitzø when he tries to get close.
- The Goetia family drama has once again reared it's hideous head, causing the plot of this episode to kick off. This normally wouldn't be an issue but many feel that this episode is almost an exact duplicate of season 1's "Loo Loo Land", where Octavia is saddened by her parental situation and then the episode finishes with her and Stolas having a heartwarming talk. It even features Stolas, Blitzo and M&M getting into trouble independent of her story in the much the same way. The debate has become how many times are we going to see this plot again before it develops in a meaningful way? It's also the second episode in a row focusing more on Stolas/the Goetias instead of I.M.P, threatening to turn the drama and Stolas into a Spotlight-Stealing Squad.
- Stolas and Blitzo's relationship issues, which seemed on the cusp of a desperately needed turning point. Despite this episode focusing on fatherhood, and despite the narrative providing them ample time to flirt, they never connect on any level save sexual.
Anyone else able to weigh in?
Edited by RebelFalcon Vegeta: I'm back bitches! Hide / Show Replies
All of those points have been brought up in only one or two episodes. Blitzo and Loona’s relationship hasn’t been given central focus since the third episode, the Goetia family drama has been given the focus for two episodes and only briefly touched upon in others, and Stolas and Blitzo’s relationship issues were given focus in only two episodes with the latest one arguably being more about their relationships with their daughters than with each other. It still feels too early to judge them all as a whole.
They fit and they should be put back. While I understand what you mean by the show still being young, we've never kept tropes in stasis for 3 year old properties. Besides we're talking about complaints people have had since season 1, and I sincerely doubt those complaints are going to vanish once the next episode comes out in a month or two.
Edited by Codafett Find the Light in the Dark
Maybe Snap Back is a better fit.
My question is should they go under the episodes YMMV page or the series page?
Snap Back isn't YMMV though.
Even so, I'd argue the series page since it would be covering a series issue rather than just an episode.
Vegeta: I'm back bitches!
They definitely fit and should be put back. The show is well over a year old, it's not that young, and these aren't problems people just suddenly decided they had; they're old problems that are quickly getting worse.
I suspect the issue is also exacerbated by the relatively long gap between S1 and S2 due to all the issues with episode 8. For the Blitz/Stolas relationship breakdown, there was a big cliffhanger at the end of ep 7 with it looking like the status quo was about to change. Then there was the longest wait between episodes to date, where it seems like ep8 would have Blitz's poor emotional state in the wake of ep 7 and his relationship with Loona be a focus. Then it got canned (EDIT: postponed) and instead they dropped s2e1, which was one of the first really divisive episodes of the show, especially with how it changed up established characters/relationships. It also didn't progress things much by the end of the episode, outside of the implication Stolas might give Blitz an Asmodean crystal and call off the deal. What actually happened in s2e2 WAS a Loona episode like fans wanted, but not one where she changed much or gave any indication of why she suddenly thinks Blitz is doing his best where in s1e3 she felt he was suffocating her, so the conflict not resolved in s1e3 is also not resolved here. AND on top of that it was the first episode where Blitz and Stolas have to talk again and they don't even act awkward around each other, so there's no indication if or when the show actually intends to address s1e7. Tl;dr but the arc fatigue is likely a result of both show production and show content factors and I'd say it counts - maybe for the main page instead of just this episode's page, personally
Edited by zoopyDoopy
Is this an example?
said to wait for more episodes before judging if Arc Fatigue is in effect.
And Snap Back is not YMMV, but if it objectively fits what happened in the episode, and conveys the issue without needing to debate if the audience reaction is in effect, any reason not to add it? (Aesop Amnesia and Yo Yo Plot Point are other thing it might fit.)
He/Him
I've seen a large backlash from fans of Stella or at the very least sympathizers of her saying that S2E1 turned her into a one-dimensional, abusive spouse with little to no nuance.
Edited by AudioSpeaks2 Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project Hide / Show Replies
As far as I'm concerned that's pretty much how Stella's been portrayed from the get go. She throws around their staff, looks down on the lower classes of hell, doesn't acknowledge how any of her marriage trouble affects Octavia (or seemingly how she'd react to her father being assassinated). Stella has at no point been portrayed in a positive light nor been given any redeeming qualities. She has been a flat character from the beginning till now.
Fair enough then. That's actually what I think too btw. It's just that I've seen many Stella sympathizers say that it was at the very least a wasted oppurtunity.
Edited by AudioSpeaks2 Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
They only say it was a wasted opportunity because they didn’t see the hints that she was an outright villain. People who sympathize with Stella have already been covered under Draco in Leather Pants and Misaimed Fandom. We don’t need to be adding more fuel to the fire.
I feel like the Unintentionally Unsympathetic fits well for some of the characters (mainly Blitz and Stolas). Sure the show acknowledges that what they do is wrong, but it also hasn't done a lot (in my opinion) to make me feel sorry for them.
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So you're admitting it's your own personal opinion instead of a general fandom opinion? Because that's not what YMMV is about.
Should we just make a tab for alternative character interpretation? there seems to be a lot and it wouldn't take up a whole section.
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I moved the episode specific examples to their respective recap ymmv pages.
We should add a tab only when the general examples reach around 10 or so.
Any other example list we might need to move?
Ensemble Dark Horse entries are an issue. At this point it isn't just minor characters that happen to be popular listed, it is every single slightly popular character that appeared in the show so far, a show that, as of this writing, consists of only 6 episodes (pilot included). Not to mention that some entries are obvious Square Peg Round Trope:
- Stolas is not a minor character. He is a recurring major one, and even got his own episode as soon as episode 2. He doesn't belong there.
- Striker is a main antagonist, and it is all but stated that he will come back later on.
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