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Fighteer
moderator
topic
01:10:30 PM Nov 3rd 2010
I'd just like to emphasize here that, as far as the author is concerned, Bern and May's relationship remains a spoiler so it should be properly marked on the main article.
Fighteer
moderator
topic
07:08:59 AM Jun 14th 2010
Look, we've been over this enough times. People hurl around Canon Sue whenever they feel like a character is too "perfect" or too "good" to be realistic, but Flipside broadly fails the test in that the story is not utterly consumed by Maytag's character. I think people are confusing Mary Sue with the Anthropic Principle. The term is massively overused.
206.248.176.155
10:25:59 AM Jun 14th 2010
edited by 206.248.176.155
Which trope should be use when a character is fawned over and portrayed as flawless? Anthropic Principle only applies to the characters loss or victory withing the context of the story, it doesn't have anything to do with maytag's "sexual independence" speeches, or the lines like "wow, that's a great plan" after everything she says. The first few chapters of the actual story she fits Canon Sue straight up, the term could at least apply to that portion of the story (if a trope is used at all it still fits, regardless of how many chapters ago they stopped using it)

It is pretty difficult to categorize though, I originally chalked it up to author appeal played way up, (the character is an attractive younger woman who reads like a Magical Girlfriend, and has an entire philosophy based around her approval and enjoyment of bisexual promiscuity, which is also her favorite pastime) Most of the characters traits fit better under Magical girlfriend, except the speeches and the fawning. There's no mention of the fawning or the wordy speeches on the page, or the characters portrayed flawlessness. I'd guess fans keep erasing it.

For fawning, the line "wow, that's a great plan" by the awestruck fanboy Crest stands out. His only purpose within the story has been to fawn over maytag and be amazed at everything that happens. Whether or not it is well done is subjective, but he lost any other purpose when they left town in the earliest chapters.

Concerning flawlessness, in discussion, Maytag makes no concessions because she's always right, and gives long uninterrupted speeches about why she's right. Always played straight. Bernadette is a much more rounded character, but she also has her moments. Neither character is used for comic relief at any point, and the characters have been illustrated as paragon in their respective fields (bernadette, swordsmanship, maytag, psychology) Canon Sue is probably not what it should be posted under (Maytag fits it in the first few chapters, but she was more of a Magical Girlfriend) but you haven't offered any alternatives, you've just deleted what was there.
Fighteer
moderator
10:56:33 AM Jun 14th 2010
edited by Fighteer
Maytag was originally listed as a Purity Sue, but it got slashed by a different troper. In general one simply does not take the step of listing a character as a Sue without gaining general approval, as applies to all Subjective Tropes, at the risk of becoming Flame Bait.

Besides, feel free to put an entry for her on the Purity Sue article. That's where this stuff belongs anyway.
Alexlayer
02:39:58 PM Jun 14th 2010
I'll have you deconstructed the whole thing. Claiming that Maytag or Bern are Mary Sues is really just closing your mind to what you want to see, while ignoring others.

It's true that both protagonist have been portrayed as talented and special, but they are by no means taken as "Perfect".

Maytag may have all her sexual freedom view, but this isn't treated as something "right" by anyone but herself. Crest called her out on cheating and rejected her advances on her, despite him being unlucky with women and that having been a perfect chance. Bern pretty much forgave her, but it's clear she never enjoyed Maytag cheating on her. And nobody has yet agreed that her way is right. That's without mentioning that, differing from other characters in the story, Maytag can't fight. She may be good at talking her way out, intimidating, negotiating and standing defensive with her daggers, but other than that, she can't do much.

Bernadette has been portrayed as someone of strong morals and amazing fighting skills, but for as much as these skills have shown, they are clearly not invencible, specially not against magic, which MOST of the cast has. Speaking of Magic, Bern has also been shown being very close-minded about it and may reject it even when it can be used for good. Not to mention, taking Blood Mary as an example, Bern is nowhere as forgiving in certain things like Maytag is.

So there, May and Bern are special, but by no means perfect, and the story adresses this. It's just that right now there hasn't been much to show it (what with these fights taking FOREVER), but while their flaws haven't shown up in a while, their limits has, seeing how complicated this fight is being for them.

Whatever trope you decide to ask, make sure to avoid Mary Sue accusations from here own.
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