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GiantSpaceChinchilla
topic
05:31:39 PM Jul 22nd 2013
Dueling Shows: Farscape.

I'd argue that the show duels more with Doctor Who than farscape. Worth debating?
MatthewTheRaven
02:17:06 PM Jul 23rd 2013
State your case. Because Farscape and Lexx were contemporary, quirky post-Star Trek sci-fi shows about starving, disfunctional assholes on an organic spaceship, and aired back to back on the Sci Fi network in America. They were noted as being very similar in premise while they aired.

Doctor Who doesn't really have anything in common with Lexx, other than being a science fantasy show.
GiantSpaceChinchilla
04:53:53 PM Jul 25th 2013
Farscape, Lexx, and Doctor Who (specifically the 1996 telefilm forward) are definitely contemporary, with quirky, vagabonds on organic spaceships, and Walking the Earth premises. However if the gist of the dueling show trope is “this is your program but twisted” then the similarities among the Science Fantasy settings become less and less important than the differences. the TARDIS for instance isn’t shown feeding where as Lexx is, the Lexx is a manhattan sized self-propelled weapon while the Tardis travels through space and time while being larger on the inside (possibly with storage space aplenty for weapons defensive or otherwise), one of the themes of Lexx is indifference for example the lexx only responds to the host of the key while great amounts of deference are granted to the doctor and his companions.

In short, perhaps it’s only my opinion, but Farscape and Lexx track too well and don’t fulfill the “this is your program but twisted” feel of Dueling Shows i.e. both kind of the same but farscape has a lower tech level, smaller scope, and sane smex while the paradigm between Doctor Who and Lexx are almost identical Lexx boasting less sanity (and less PG in general).

Speaking of opinion shouldn’t the listing be moved to a YMMV or Trivia tab?

MatthewTheRaven
07:58:21 PM Jul 26th 2013
Doctor Who - baring the 1996 telefilm - wasn't contemporaneous with Lexx and Farscape, though, and they weren't bundled together in the same way that Lexx and Farscape were, and while the TARDIS is organic, it...barely is, really, from both an aesthetic perspective and the storytelling. The TARDIS's bodily functions don't come up as they did for Lexx and Moya, who got pregnant and had to eat and such. I guess they may feel similar to you, but it's a vague way to describe it. Farscape and Lexx's similarities have been harped upon tons of times, and I'm not really sure what you mean by Lexx and Doctor who having a almost identical paradigm. You didn't elaborate on that. I don't think many people would watch Lexx and then Doctor Who and note how similar they feel, while many people have said that about Farscape and Lexx.

Lexx does feel like Farscape but twisted just a little bit - "twisted" doesn't mean twisted as in insaner (though, yeah, it does), but twisted as an the premise has been tweaked a bit. I could see two different teams coming up with the idea and then splitting into two groups and coming back with Lexx and Farscape...Doctor Who, not so much.
GiantSpaceChinchilla
03:43:03 PM Aug 2nd 2013
My apologies for taking a while to reply, junk got in the way.

I concede that Farscape and Lexx are popularly connected that’s why I am arguing that Doctor Who would be a better fit for Dueling Shows I disagree with the consensus. To devagueify my thought process consider how many times the doctor has been chased through time and space because of who he is and what he can do and how UNIT treats him and his companions; now consider the crew of the lexx chased through the two universes by people who could care less about the crew themselves save for their own agenda.

As for people watching the two series for comparisons there is a lot to find for example the narco-lounger which is a Lotus-Eater Machine that vaporizes the recipient then allows their mind to enter a dream in a little jar while their body materials elsewhere would fit in just fine in Doctor Who.

Lastly about taking the same premise and making two shows is it that much of a stretch to say: Different planets vs. different times, Lexx traveling around being marvelous but accidently blowing up planets vs. TARDIS traveling around being marvelous but finding countless disasters, The Light Universe being destroyed by self replicating creepy robots vs. All of creation being destroyed or threatened with destruction by Daleks, villains, or aging power-plants.
MatthewTheRaven
03:12:35 PM Aug 3rd 2013
edited by 216.99.32.44
Let's reread the Dueling Shows trope, and break this down:

The below is a list of shows that are considered twisted reflections of each other. Which is the original and which is the rip-off is not always completely clear.

Often, the shows are developed at the same time, so all they have in common is their basic premise and pitch description. This is especially true in animation, given the long lead time required to get a finished show to air. When both programs get to the screen, they may differ in every important respect, except their one-sentence capsule description. Each program has its own audience and meddling suits. Either way, if they persist in coexisting, the audience will polarize, and the shows will evolve away from each other, or one will be canceled.

  • Run -
    • Lexx: 1997-2002 (4 Seasons, the first of which is a connected tetralogy of movies.)
    • Farscape: 1999-2003 (4 Seasons + Minseries Finale)
    • Doctor Who: 1963-1989, 1996 Made-for-TV movie Movie, 2005-Present.

Doctor Who is obviously the odd man out, as nobody could even remotely be confused in regards to what went into development first.

Most importantly, both Lexx and Farscape are what could be called Post-Trek reactions, attacks on the idealism and extremely humanist premises of the Trek Revival of the late 80's and early 90's. Doctor Who, dating to before the Sci-Fi TV bulwark of Star Trek, is in no way a reaction to it.

Even if this isn't enough, Doctor Who is the odd man out in most other comparisons of the three shows.

  • Premise -
    • Lexx: Four fugitives from a militant theocracy known as the Divine Order hijack a powerful living ship and flee across two universes from the Divine Order and Grey Goo Remnants of the Divine Order, before landing on two planets that may be the afterlife and eventually landing on a twisted parody of contemporary Earth.
    • Farscape: Three fugitives from a militant order known as the Peacekeepers hijack a defenseless living ship, pick up a member of said order and a wormhole transplanted human astronaut, and flee from an insane renegade Peacekeeper commander and, somewhat later, a scientific genius and mastermind. The metaplot involves said astronaut's connection to wormhole technology and escape from the aforementioned Peacekeeper pursuers.
    • Doctor Who: A fugitive from a stuffy, overly-academic species of time travellers known as the Time Lords hijacks a timeship with some organic components and has countless adventures with a long series of travelling companions. While the Doctor is a fugitive, he is rarely pursued by the Time Lords, those pursuits have figured into some of his twelve billion stories.

The Doctor may be a fugitive, but the pursuit isn't a major component of the program's metaplot as it is in Lexx and Farscape.

  • Genre and Tone-
    • Lexx: VERY Darkly comedic and weird Science-Fantasy (up to and including the Devil as a major recurring villain and an actual fairy king). Highly sexualized, even including nudity.
    • Farscape: Weird, serio-comic Science-Fantasy (more traditionally sci-fi than Lexx, but one minor recurring villain was a diabolical sorcerer for all intents and purposes). Somewhat sexualized, but no frontal nudity.
    • Doctor Who: Weird science-Fantasy (including at least two encounters with different types of demons) with a lot of tonal changes throughout its run, shifting from pulp sci-fi to gothic horror to self-aware campy farce between stories and production regimes. Almost completely asexual in its original run. Bit cheekier nowadays, but nothing explicit or plot-driving.

On paper, Doctor Who doesn't seem far off, but it lacks the sexuality- and even sleaze- of the other two shows. Also, it's plotting is completely different, with the Doctor usually overcoming obstacles and inspiring others to do so, while the crew of the Lexx barely survives misadventures that wipe out the rest of the cast and the crew of the Farscape always barely making it out by the skin of their teeth.

Doctor Who is grand, classical adventure, humanistic and uplifting (usually), where the main character is an active superhero with a major villain defeated by people chanting the Doctor's name in unison to basically deify the Mary Sue main character even further. Nothing like that could happen in the worlds of Lexx and Farscape, which are outright nihilistic and gritty-and-rough-with-moments-of-reluctant-heroism, respectively.

Lexx and Farscape would never have a straight Christ figure in a major role, but they could both have a half-lizard sex slave, people being milked for drug components at a beach resort, and a robot head that recites dirty poems. Doctor Who wouldn't.

Torchwood, on the other hand...

P.S. The Sci-Fi show that has a fairly strong claim to being the British Dueling Show to post-Trek reactions Farscape and Lexx is Red Dwarf (1988-1999, 2009, 2012).
GiantSpaceChinchilla
07:52:11 PM Aug 4th 2013
I will concede that Doctor Who wouldn’t feature “sleaze” or other sexual themes in it’s A-plot (although the human female in the motor way giving birth to genetically modified kittens does raise a few eyebrows) however I disagree with your comparison of the plotting Lexx and Doctor who have humongous body counts as far as innocent bystanders and the like while farscape did not.

Mary Sue-ism could be linked to all of the shows due to its subjective nature i.e. Kia with his juggernaut-esque abilities teaming up with 790 to solve almost any problem when suitably motivated with the doctor’s ability to solve almost anything eventually, etc.

As far as “straight” in your Christ Figure Kia or Zev/Xev may or may not fit but they are highly moral saviors that have died and have been resurrected, the former claims to still be dead and the later is something of a ethical slut but both have powers if not supernatural. Further in Doctor Who’s long run Half human hybrids, scam resorts, and robot heads have probably all existed although without the dirty poetry.
Deboss
topic
11:08:31 PM Jan 16th 2011
Cut all three quotes, page limit is two. Vote for them or something, I don't care. Keep it down to two though, and start a Quotes.Lexx for all I care.

I am the Lexx. I am the most powerful weapon of destruction in the two universes.

Yo way yo
Houm va ray
Yo way rah
Jerhume Brunnen-G.

Comedy, Tragedy, Technology, Sex,
Infinity, Insanity, Intensity, Sex,
Beauty, Savagery, Absurdity, Sex,
Assassin, Love Slave, Idiot... Lexx.
JBK405
11:16:47 PM Jan 16th 2011
edited by JBK405
If you don't care then why make the edit? Why not just ignore it and move on your way?

The commercial seems to be most logical choice, it gives the best look at what the show actually is (A big twist of Mind Screw and literal screwing rolled into one), whereas the Brunnen-G Hymn (For all its beauty and awesomeness) won't mean a thing to somebody who isn't already familiar with the show.
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