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Mijin
topic
11:18:40 PM Jul 2nd 2013
Isn't this truth in television? What women find attractive is typically more broad than for men, with things like status, wealth and being fun all being things that can make a plain-looking man desirable.

The characters in sitcoms are rarely successful, but they often have interesting adventures and are funny. I would expect them to do better than their appearance alone would imply.
BlackTemplar
01:00:22 AM Jan 8th 2014
I actually think this is a severe YMMV trope and should be moved there.
gmonkey42
topic
10:26:34 AM Jun 26th 2013
It says "most sitcom viewers of [sic] female." "Most" is a huge exaggeration, it's almost 50/50. Plus a lot of women are offended by the stereotype that a Homer Simpson slob is entitled to a hot wife, but ugly women like Patty and Selma are practically pariahs. Blaming this sexist trope on the preferences of female viewers is pretty unreasonable.

Here are some statistics about who watches sitcoms: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2-YwR04TUK0J:rbr.com/sitcoms-consumers-and-retail/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Mijin
02:55:03 AM Jul 3rd 2013
"the stereotype that a Homer Simpson slob is entitled to a hot wife, but ugly women like Patty and Selma are practically pariahs"

It's interesting that you see it that way.

Homer is not a looker, and he has many personality flaws. But he's charismatic, adventurous, and has succeeded in many fields. And on a number of occasions he's risked his life for his family and his marriage.

What are P&S' positive personality traits?
Digital_Utopia
topic
08:57:03 PM Nov 15th 2011
In my opinion, his trope is getting heavily derailed, with people putting any case where the female partner is hotter than the male. The trope (and the description) is specifically *ugly* guy, hot wife and not, Hollywood Homely/Average Guy, Hot Wife. I removed two Adam Sandler references, and while there are plenty more bad examples; I'm hesitant on going on a mass deletion spree, based off of my opinions alone.
Cider
11:35:56 PM Oct 15th 2012
Do it, go crazy, it can't get worse than how it is already used.
arminius
topic
12:01:53 PM May 11th 2011
I don't want to get an edit account, because I'm new to this format and don't want to do some massive faux pas. But I think Amy and Rory, the companions to the 11th Doctor on Doctor Who should be on the list, and was surprised that they weren't. Several plots in the 5th and 6th seasons have turned on this premise—floundering with this "my wife is hotter than me" fact is pretty much the only thing that Rory seems to bring to the table, character-wise.
emeriin
12:03:37 PM May 11th 2011
Many fangirls find Rory attractive, and he's sweet, loyal and would do anything for her.
Digital_Utopia
12:08:21 AM Dec 28th 2011
Yeah, again - this isn't a trope based off of whether or not the girl is hotter than the guy, but that the guy is specifically (and physically) ugly. In this particular case, Rory is by no means ugly, and despite his frequent "whipped" behavior, is arguably better looking than the Doctor himself.
Hammerhead
topic
03:34:18 AM Apr 27th 2011
Why oh WHY does "Ugly" seem to be a synonym for "Fat" here? There's kind of a difference, people. There are plenty of people who are fat and don't have idea bodies, but have very attractive faces (Plus Size Models, dur hur). If half the examples are going to be "fat guy, 'hot' wife" then we should just change it to that, and not seem to automatically lump any man who is fat into the category of ugly. It's incredibly shallow and gross, especially when it's for a trope that's supposed to be pointing out such incredible superficiality in the first place!
Jabroniville
11:38:24 PM Jun 3rd 2011
edited by Jabroniville
Because fat tends to be considered unattractive by a large majority of people, ESPECIALLY the media (leading to "What Does She See in Him?" in either case, but especially if the man is overweight). Most "plus size models" are hardly fat either. Most fat guys would easily fit the trope — it's also much easier to argue that someone at Jim Belushi's weight would be out of Courtney Thorne-Smith's league. Getting into the exact variations of "Ugly" is already enough of a problem regarding semantics, thank you very much. We add "Fat Guy" then people will be arguing about the variations of THAT, too. It's far simpler and more efficient to pile that all under "Ugly Guy" (since being overweight = ugly to most people). You can make Fat Guy, Hot Wife if you want to, however. No one's stopping you.

Note also that part of the trope is the inherent sexism- a woman of comparable size to Seth Rogen is almost NEVER dating a handsome guy in the media- to the point that it becomes a major talking-point of the work in question when it DOES happen. The implicit idea is that men can let themselves go physically (in the face AND the body), but women are not allowed to.
Digital_Utopia
12:18:29 AM Dec 28th 2011
It is somewhat more on the right track, but the trouble here, as with the trope itself, is that attractiveness is subjective. There are women and men alike that prefer partners with a little "meat" on their bones, older men and women are more likely to find older women/men more attractive than younger ones will, etc. Even the person's personality affects their perceived attractiveness. I mean, compare Chris Farley with Marlon Brando at the end of their respective lives.
emeriin
topic
05:21:11 AM Oct 16th 2010
Should we tighten this to when it's mentioned in-universe? Because this trope is everywhere and a lot of the examples really don't count.
Jabroniville
03:08:04 AM Oct 21st 2010
I wouldn't, because a lot of shows patently ignore hanging a lampshade on this trope. I edited out many of the faulty "real life" examples, and will start on the other folders as I see them.
Jabroniville
topic
03:49:11 AM Oct 10th 2010
edited by Jabroniville
OK, I'm in the process of paring out examples of "Not really an example, but..." or "your mileage may vary". Examples like Reed Richards (not unattractive at all- just nerdy and doesn't pay attention. That's Nerdy Guy Gets The Girl) and Christopher Titus shouldn't be on here. Sure, Titus has no business dating Erin, but he's at-worst slightly-below-average. She's hotter because IT'S HOLLYWOOD. ALL ACTRESSES ARE HOT.
Jabroniville
04:05:23 AM Oct 10th 2010
Went through another batch. Some are pretty ridiculous- Russel Brand's actually states he's a sex symbol, and Ellen's mentions that she's also "mighty fine". THEN THEY DON'T REALLY COUNT, DO THEY? Others are Christina Aguilera's (though odd and mystifying, he isn't UGLY) and Roger Federer's, since that one just went on and on with "oh, but she's hotter now, and he says he loves her blah de blah". I also removed some Natter (especially around John McCain's). This Trope CAN have some Your Mileage May Vary on it, but not when the men are genuinely attractive or just "average". The explanation's right there in the trope's description.
DesertDragon
topic
10:04:05 PM Sep 8th 2010
edited by DesertDragon
Does anyone else notice that most of the real-life examples seem to be nothing more than envy? Christina Aguilera's husband isn't ugly by any stretch of the imagination, some fool is just pissy that she's not having his baby.
emeriin
07:13:28 AM Sep 9th 2010
I think this too. Like Andy Lee for example; Mr. Fanservice is not the "Ugly Guy" part of the equation.
depaderico
topic
09:25:08 PM Jul 23rd 2010
Am I the only one who is not a fan of the somewhat lazy laconic version of this page? I was thinking of changing it to something like "Relationship between goddess and donkey-man defies all logic."
Jabroniville
03:29:25 AM Oct 10th 2010
edited by Jabroniville
Laconic means "concise to the point of rudeness". I think it's laziness is appropriate.
emeriin
topic
08:26:18 AM Jul 14th 2010
Okay, we all know Emma Watson is extremely pretty. But calling Rupert Grint ugly (most of the Harry Potter child-cast have grown up very nicely) is a little unfair, don't you think?
depaderico
08:38:03 AM Jul 23rd 2010
Although I was the OP for that one, I notice now the disclaimer in the article saying not to include instances where the guy is of average looks, so I'll concede the point and won't attempt to repost. Grint is either average or somewhat above average based on a particular genetic attribute that some consider desirable for its conspicuousness and rarity. It must be difficult enough for him with his romantic counterpart being Emma friggin' Watson.
depaderico
08:39:03 AM Jul 23rd 2010
edited by depaderico
Also, by the same logic, shouldn't we remove Seth Rogen from the list, as he is also an average looking guy, even when he was carrying excess baggage.

EDIT: Looking over this page more thoroughly, there are many examples of average-looking men married to beautiful women. Perhaps someone with a good eye to looks should go through here and banish the average entries. Either that, or move them to a new trope, something like "Average guy, hot wife".
Waterlily
01:59:54 AM Nov 13th 2011
With so many examples of average guys with hot women on that page, I think Blossom and Vinnie from the tv show Blossom could go on the Hot Guy, Ugly Wife page. Blossom isn't ugly but she is kind of awkward and funny looking while her boyfriend Vinnie is totally hot.
Digital_Utopia
12:03:19 AM Dec 28th 2011
I think you're missing the point - it's the average guys that should be removed from this page, not to use that as a reason to add average girls to its counterpart.
LoserTakesAll
topic
10:47:13 PM Apr 13th 2010
Removed:

  • Also, in Norse Mythology, there's Thor (not the Marvel Comics version, obviously) and his wife Sif. Of course, you might say he got her because he's fucking Thor, but Sif is pretty badass, too.

Because the mythological Thor wasn't generally portrayed as ugly (probably not the Fabio lookalike of the comics, but certainly no less attractive than any of the other Aesir), and the mythological Sif wasn't a badass (in the comics she's a raven-haired swordswoman, pretty much the only things the myths said about her were that she was Thor's wife, she was the mother of Thor's kids, and she had golden hair).
Jabroniville
topic
10:31:12 PM Mar 6th 2010
Hey all- the length of the article (most of which I wrote anyways, so my bad there) and the number of things obviously tacked-on to other paragraphs was bugging me. So I kinda reworded some of it, and placed things in a more attractive manner. What does everyone think?
DesertDragon
08:07:21 PM Mar 10th 2010
Much appreciated. In fact, I've been meaning to come to this page for the past couple days to comment on how some of the posters just sound envious that any man can get with an attractive woman.
64.233.158.105
10:53:32 AM Jul 23rd 2010
What about a variation of "Ugly/Hot" I've come to dub "Crass 'n' Classy"? Often homely guys will also have a hygiene problem and/or poor manners, while the girl is well-bred and always ladylike. Lydia and Beetlejuice (animated)—perfect example. Kim Possible and Ron Stoppable, another...she even asks him right out in one episode (pre-coupley)why he doesn't bother to watch the gross stuff around her. His flatulence is alluded to in "Ron Millionaire", and apparantly he has some body odor issues (cf. "Animal Attraction"). Subverted a bit in "Steel Wheels" when Kim tries to be gross—and ironically only looks even hotter.
Jabroniville
03:30:35 AM Oct 10th 2010
I think "Crass & Classy" should be a separate trope in it's own right, just related to this one (they can link to each other in the trope headings). Cute men can be crass as well. They're OFTEN linked, but not always.
skzip887
01:57:14 AM Nov 21st 2010
Agreed, an ugly person can be classy while an attractive person can be crass, and vice-versa.
Leaper
10:29:25 PM Apr 14th 2013
The final note implies that overweight necessarily = ugly. I know many people would take offense to this; is there another way to phrase that?
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