Main Stable Timeloop Discussion

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09:10:24 PM Sep 5th 2013
The last example in the Real Life section is pretty much word-for-word from the Planetary comic. If it's based on a real theory, I've never heard of it.
07:12:49 PM Jul 9th 2012
edited by VictorDamazio
I just found an image that is perfect for the page and added to it.

I found here:

I asked for permission to use it but the author didn't answer, but I think he won't mind using it.
12:32:44 AM Jul 10th 2012
Image changes, pulls, or additions should go through a thread in the Image Pickin' forum. I've removed the comic; not getting an answer doesn't mean we can use a copyrighted picture, even if the author probably would be fine with it.
08:44:35 AM Jul 10th 2012
edited by VictorDamazio
OK, i'm still new here.

But I will still try to add the comic here.

And also, the author said we can use his comics, we only need to give him credit:
09:12:30 AM Jul 10th 2012
Good work, and I see you've started a thread. Thanks!
03:09:26 PM Dec 14th 2012
Ach! Fridge Logic! Wouldn't the feller in the image realize he was building or boarding the very thing which destroyed his TV? :D
06:31:07 PM Mar 23rd 2011
Doraemon DID change the future. The very first Volume said he and Nobita's grandson came back to help Nobita, who had a failed future, married to Giant's little sister and led a VERY poor life. Later in the series, the numerous times they go to the future, not only did the Nobita's grandson now have a much better life, Nobita's son(when about Nobita's age) lived in a relatively middle class home(instead of the broken wooden house in the first volume photo album showed) and also, Nobita is now married to his love interest, Shizuka. However, the change was not directly because of Doraemon's intervention in the present, but because Nobita once traveled to the future, disguised as his grown up self before marriage(using fantasy like technology from the 22nd century Doraemon got) and won the heart of Shizuka because he performed so pathetically(don't expect a grade 4 kid can have the wits and experience of a grown up man especially when it is essentially himself) that Shizuka thought if she does not help out, Nobita would not be able to face all the difficulties in life he is going to face.

This is a multiple point entry, where future characters traveled to the present hoping to change the future, with no direct success, but they THOUGHT it worked and only stayed to make sure things go on as it is, and multiple time traveling later, the character from the present accidentally triggered the deciding event without anyone, including himself, noticing it.
11:28:51 AM Feb 16th 2011
The definition is logically a little wrong. The kind of thing according to this article described by Einstein isn't paradoxical, and it is not the same thing as the Bootstrap Paradox. You can travel to the past, do some things, realise in your time they had already happened, no problem. The problem is confined to what is also mentioned in the article, when something seems to come out of nothing. I think that's probably prohibited as a natural implication of the Einstein style logic. Anyway, the paradox is a special case of this at most. That leaves the alternative titles a bit problematic, since they don't all refer tot he same thing. Maybe I'll edit the article later to put this straight if I can think of how to explain it.
07:06:15 AM Feb 22nd 2011
I'm pretty sure it's _not_ forbidden. Or at leastó general relativity has stable solutions with time-like curves: You can have an object with a time path that is a closed loop, such objects would have no explicable origin. The fact that general relativity allows such solutions (though it doesn't tell you how to create one) is one reason people believe the theory to be incomplete.
04:31:01 PM Jul 8th 2012
Indeed. Stable time loops are far more paradoxical than the mythical "paradoxes" that time travelers seeking to ensure a Stable Time Loop are so afraid of creating. A Stable Time Loop essentially creates objects and events with no origin, and the start of the loop itself is a paradox—if it couldn't have started without it already being there, then it couldn't have started. Likewise, it's flat out impossible that, eventually, time-travelling without creating a Stable Time Loop would occur: all you would have to do is reach a point where the time machine (and time travel) is available enough that going back a day or two into the past is not going to change its availability. You can then do something different from what you KNOW happened (video records, personal experience), and viola.

If time dilation is already possible (though ultimately pointless and hugely impractical) for us in the present, then ultimately manipulating time can't be a black-hole-inducing paradox.
04:46:48 AM Sep 19th 2012
edited by Harmonex
There's really a simple way to describe how a stable time loop can occur. Seen from the outside, it isn't a paradox at all. This may have already been mentioned elsewhere. Imagine that you are traveling back in time to change something. That change occurs. Then time travel becomes available in the "new" future. Because events change, someone goes back in time to make "different" changes. This loops around, with each change being completely different from the first one until—an infinite amount of trials and errors later—the loop stabilizes.

For illustration, I give you the Collatz Conjecture:
  • You start with a number.
  • If the number is even, divide it by two.
  • If the number is odd, multiply it by three and add one.
  • The conjecture hypothesizes that all numbers will collapse to 1.

Say we start with 5. It's odd, so we multiply by three (15), then add one (16). Since that number is even, we divide by 2 (8). So the progression is as follows: 5 16 8 4 2 1

However, we can continue the cycle. 1 is odd, meaning we can multiply it by three (3), and add one (4). The progression is now: 1 4 2 1 4 2 1 ...

We have an infinite loop that continues to feed itself. From within that loop, it looks like the loop created itself. However, from the outside, we can see how the loop was really formed. In time travel, the only history that could be observed from the future would be the final result. You would see a loop that created itself, regardless of what the reality might be.

Eventually, going back in time and making an event happen (regardless of intention) would create the events needed to make you go back in time and cause that event, assuming infinite iterations. The start isn't a paradox at all.
07:56:41 AM Jan 2nd 2011
Ah My Goddess: The time travel in the anime might qualify, as its setting up Keiichi to desire Belldandy even before the "wrong number"
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