Main Het Is Ew Discussion

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01:37:11 PM Nov 1st 2013
edited by
In the article it states:

It's worth noting that this is a fan-reaction Trope, dealing with the preference of a number of slash and yaoi fans to read about only homosexual relationships. It's not about in-universe anti-heterosexual feelings expressed within a work of fiction.

Then later states:

In-Universe examples only please, and remember, this is about a specific attitude towards heterosexuality, not just homosexual pairings.

If this is a fan reaction, how can it possibly have "In universe examples"?
03:29:42 PM Apr 14th 2014
Came here to say exactly that. I'm not going to claim whether the trope should be one or the other, but those two rules seem mutually exclusive. Unless we split it into two pages—or made the definition all-encompassing for in-universe as well as fan reactions—I'm not sure how we'd rectify it, though.
11:16:08 PM Apr 14th 2014
Fan reactions described in works are both "fan reactions" and "in universe examples". No exclusivity there.
08:52:23 AM Feb 21st 2013
Do I qualify for this? I've sometimes expressed the thought that "Heterosexual romances are boring". If I ever wrote a Fan Fic, I'd definitely operate under my usual theory that Everyone Is Bi, but I also never feel the need to degenerate the canon couples.
03:54:06 AM Aug 16th 2013
Read the article again. I took out the irrational hate and disgust that the original author invested in the article and approached it from an objective perspective based on what I've observed about this subculture.

I read a lot of doujinshi for Hetalia, Durarara and a few other series so I've come across Het Is Ew quite a few times. However, I've only noticed the Die for Our Ship sentiment in young teenagers and extremists. One of my favorite artists doesn't like Het any more after being exposed constantly to shoujo stereotypes as a little girl, but that doesn't mean she hates Het ships or people who like or write Het. She just got tired of it and likes something different.
07:40:20 AM Jun 20th 2012
Just on the off-chance anyone actually cares, here's this troper's personal theory on why she finds het so ew:- I have never been able to enjoy het romance in any media because I have trouble with female characters. I think it's because mainstream media is so dominated by the Male Gaze and the assumption by producers and distributors that the audience is a male (often a white heterosexual one too). Just look at how few popularist movies pass the Bechdel test to see what I mean and how many movies have females as the top-billed hero role (Answer: very few). This means female character are automatically relegated to a state of "otherness" - maleness is the norm, the status quo. The heroes are men, and femal charas are unable to interact on an equal footing with the male characters which to me makes any relationship feel unequal, contrived, odd. Especially where "getting the girl" is how the hero is rewarded - in that case the girl has just been reduced to being a passive prize, not an autonomous human being. Nope, I don't like it.

So, when as a young teen I discovered yaoi, I finally found romance plots I could care about because the characters were both boys (well, ok, bishounen) they felt like they had much more opportunity to interact on equal terms. Both could be heroes, free agents, interesting characters who wouldn't automatically be put in the "otherness" bubble.

It's not so much that mxm is better, it's just that I have Issues with female characters. I wouldn't say Het is Ew, more like Het is Lame, or boring, or unconvincing, really.

Anyway, I'd be interested if this resonates with any other tropers. I'll shut up now because I could write a whole thesis on this stuff if I don't.
08:29:24 AM Jun 20th 2012
Troper Tales (which that's an examlpe of) are no longer collected on this wiki, even in discussion pages. You might be able to start a thread in the Trope Talk forum to discuss this sort of thing, but it doesn't belong here, sorry.
12:19:01 PM Jun 10th 2012
Apparently this is quite a common thing for asexual people. Just a semi-interesting note. I guess that after years of having the expectation that you're going to Slot A and Tab B with someone of the opposite gender pushed on you, by contrast porn involving nobody of your gender is much more palatable, and doesn't require any sort of self-insertion. Or you're just not into porn, but still find het ew. Well, who knows.
08:12:37 AM Jun 20th 2012
I can understand that. Also, I'm not asexual but I don't feel anything particularly sexual myself when reading yaoi - it's more about the feelings and relationship dynamics (and the art). The sex scenes are an important part of the story but it's also about more than just watching two bodies conjugate.

Lots of lesbians like yaoi. That makes sense to me though, it's not like the charas in yaoi are realistic representations of men. They're more like avatars of idealised female concepts of romance. With big wet eyes and floppy hair and sparkles, to boot.
10:31:35 PM Jul 25th 2011
edited by Camacan
Got this in quote format:

"Straight is the new gay."

Not attributed, could be more of a "subtitle" — but that looks wrong when we already have a page quote. Suggest integrating the sentiment with the main text but it's already there in essence.
10:07:41 PM Dec 23rd 2010
For an image, could we include this? Or should we just leave the page imageless?
07:20:01 PM Nov 5th 2010
"When you get down to it, plain-vanilla sexual intercourse has its own share of squick. Just about the only thing more unsanitary would be for a boy to stick his whatsit in a back-door whatsit. (...And yet the Het Is Ew crowd runs with that. So maybe these two are unrelated.) "

This is written awkwardly. I think it's the "..." and the use of the term "whatsit".
08:06:07 PM Aug 14th 2010
edited by DonZabu
"At the very least, all of us—gay, straight or otherwise—probably had at a small dollop of it the first time we got The Talk. 'A boy sticks his what in a girl's what!! That's disgusting! I'm never gonna do that!'"

Is that a really valid comparison to make? I mean, unlike the Het Is Ew we tend to think of, it doesn't really imply that homosexuality is better.
05:20:36 PM Apr 5th 2010
"See also (SFW strip on NSFW site), about a sponsor's reaction to the above, after years of tentacle sex, furry sex, threesomes, children wearing bondage gear for fun, various forms of bestiality, gay sex, various acts with a shemale, S&M (including Jesus reenacting the crucifixion), numerous jokes about pedophilia, and a few about bukkake. And that's just what I remember from skimming through the archives to find the strip."

Oh, come on. Is it really appropriate to put gay sex on the same level as pedophilia, bestiality, and tentacle sex?

I'm sorry if this seems like a random/odd thing to bring up, but it annoys me so much when people do that.
05:55:02 PM Feb 13th 2011
edited by SeanTucker
Sponsors are generally way more likely to pull ads from something with gay or otherwise deviant content than from something with het content. That's why it's on the same level there.
06:46:28 PM Mar 9th 2010
What is a gen fic?
05:22:57 PM Apr 5th 2010
Gen fic is short for general (fan) fiction. Gen fic is a catch-all term for fan fiction that doesn't revolve around romance or sex.
05:47:32 PM Dec 30th 2012
Hm...the "Het is Ew" phenomenon mystifies me. That any gay person, male or female, wants to see their reality respected and portrayed in art and pop culture, I understand perfectly- I even understand how the near TOTAL domination of heterosexuality in art/culture (at least, up to the latter part of the twentieth century) could be a source of resentment. What I don't understand is flat-out embracing the type of exclusion and even disgust of straight people that gay people were once universally subjected to. Is it some kind of revenge? I honestly don't understand it. I am a fifty year old man. While I consider myself straight, I have had several relationships with men. I don't consider myself "Bi"; I tilt about 90% towards straight sex, and I have never really had romantic feelings for men. I have sometimes felt resentment from gay acquaintances about this, and I am always hurt by it. Recently, I have done some fan fiction writing, a new thing for me, and I have been stunned by the often negative reaction I receive by writing characters WHO ARE STRAIGHT, AS STRAIGHT. Wow. I mean, if you like Star Trek, I naturally assume that you like Star Trek, as it was created and conceived. If you enjoy imagining an "alternate universe" where Kirk and co. are all gay, that's cool, go for it, I say. But to actually attack someone for DARING to write the characters as depicted in cannon...that seems nutty to me. I am, honestly, trying to understand this. If it is simply about the once ubiquitous anti-gay hatred and prejudice of 'straight' society being paid back in kind, then all I can say is how sad. Hopefully, the next generation (or two) will get past all this craziness. If there is more to it than bigotry, then I would truly appreciate some knowledge on the subject. Please, no ugly hatred, I am someone trying to understand.
06:38:37 PM Dec 30th 2012
I'm a woman, I have been mostly romantically attracted to other women and sometimes to men, I suppose I can refer to me as bi. I enjoy writing and reading fanfiction, both with romantic inclination or not, I don't care, I enjoy reading explorations of relationships between characters of works I like, whenever it's romantic or not, not matter the genders of the characters. I don't really think that my own sexuality has something to do with what kind of relationships I want to read, and I believe that thinking that one "kind" of relationship is superior than other because of the genders of the characters is pretty stupid. Sure, I like some works with gay relationships as much as some works with straight relationships. I understand that most of them aren't canon and I don't mind, I enjoy the canon work and the "what if" relationship. Fanfictions are not canon, I know that they aren't, I find them fun, I have no problem with that. I enjoy canon just as it is.

I see the whole 'Het is Ew' thing more as fetishization of gay people/relationships rather than "revenge towards straight people". The same deal of the whole "Girl on Girl is hot" trope can be used to this logic. It's not thinking that straight people are inferior, but thinking that straight people aren't "hot/interesting/whatever enough as gay people", thinking as gay people as an object that you enjoy rather than people.

Also, most of the phenomenon comes from women supporting male/male relationships, rather than male/male relationships and female/female relationships, going against relationships with women since they see women as "less interesting", like if you think that Kirk and co. are much interesting characters to write, and that females in Star Trek are boring and their relationships will be flat and gross. Yes, it's pretty misogynist.
02:33:15 AM Jul 16th 2015
edited by vye
It's silly how this is apparently a trend topic online,when this should be just a matter of personal like

06:43:41 AM Jul 16th 2015
edited by maryjake
Oh jesus christ,I just love how all my five hated female characters have their fucking fans protectors who just try so hard to make posts and make people like them,when this actually shows how pathetic they are and make people hate those characters even more.

And to top it off,they even use weak excuses,like for Cheria Barnes from tale of graces f, as She is sweet and takes care of others Yes cause you know,other people usually are always evil mean bastards and she is the only one in the fucking world who takes care of others so that makes it a personality trait!!!! or But she is not there just for Asbel you know?she ...oh! she has actually a desire in life ! yes to heal people!

Yes,that dream that is cited just barely twice in the game and not developeted enough to make it an actual ambition in life but just a proof that she is not just there to being a bad rapresentation of girls who are in love? what does we see she does in the game for her dream?oh yeah nothing..just words without actions are meaningless .

or my favourite You hate her cause she is the way of your gay otp who is not canon because clearly anything that is gay can't be canon but something straight done with the ass pushed down people throats is fairly canon and even if I found straight shippers whose ship is not canon I won't complain about how much they bitch about gay ships Sorry but I'm so used to read this shit that this is actually how they sound like in my head. First thing we need to get this over,People can like or dislike for whatever reason they want ok?You mean if fan hated the character for another reason it would be fine for you? really? Is that why you mean when you say not being a hater but actually being one to fans who may dislike something you like? I can hate a character for whatever reason alright? there is no one that can say oh you can hate her just for that action but for that other action absolutely not it's forbidden by god There are people who do not even know what gay ships are and hate female characters,I hope you are aware of that. Shippers just have some sort of hint to hate her even more but usually in anime there is not just one person who fall is in love with the main character who is part of the ship, but usually there are at least two or three girls who love the main character in that way but not all of them are hated.Usually the one hated is the most popular or the main but that's not because she has more possibility of canon (since when?everyone used to say sakura was the one who will be with naruto cause she was the main character and she most was always with naruto and he even had a crush for her and in the end he did get with Hinata) but it's not for that,it's because usually the main female character is not as good as the others female characters. it's true. The main female character,has less expressions,less characterization,less developement,less realistic features,less objectivity toward a real life as a woman and not as a follow forever main character, she is usually just given two hints of personality that for her fans apparently mean a whole detailed developement,her reasons or her past are usually done by lazy writing plot excuses not relatable to real life,at all. Example she falls in love with the main character with the lazy excuse of I love his courage\determination\force\appareance (last one is the more realistic actually) or another example her parents\sisters\brothers died (original,especially in a apocalictive world when 99% of the people died so that even emplies a bad rapresantation of egocentrism) so just because the main character saved her she is automatically excused to being in love with him, even thought in thousands of shows we see characters saving eachother from death (or saving even familiars from death)and making sure the person lives happily when they leave,helping by giving money or saving even a whole country but not falling in love and just be thankufully to that person for the rest of their life,like it should be.

Someone saving you or someone saying something inspirational are really REAALLY weak excuses for being in love,lazy not developeted reasons. If your love life does revolve around that I don't want to know nothing about it. There are other two genre of female characters who should really be pitied by everyone for their writing. The ones who actually have no developement,I'm talking actually about the ones who do nothing half of the show, or even all of the show for that fucking matter!!! they just could mimetizarse along the other background characters and no one would fucking notice the difference. Except those two times that happens every 5 years when they turn into main actual characters and do something that would not in anyway make the plot progress or change by any fucking chance. good call If you want to like a character then good you can like her sure,I don't care to be honest I don't want to oppress my opinion on people.You just saw my opinion right there but that doesn't mean I pretend that every one like what I like. I never once did that. I just hate that those fans who have no respect in slightets of people who MIGHT and I say MIGHT dislike your character for obvious reasons,get so much fucking shit. It is femminist?really?I am a femminist actually you know?

and I find those female characters really offensive and they rage me. I HAVE female characters that i like that unfortunally don't get much popularity as those shitty ones? Maybe because the female characters that I like are better developeted? and so they are boring to the fandom cause they dont' have the straight romance with the main character going? Still one reason to make me like character above everything else is being lesbian,trans or gay,in CANON.genderqueer is a BIG deal,lgbt needs rapresentation.

show the ones in more urges,the ones who had always been hated from society,from people and family,

which rapresentation in the media lacks, is usually bad or in the background. There is sometimes that people say,you hate her cause she is a female,but if she was a guy then you would have love her! First no,I'm not so hateful towards my gender that I hate people just for having vagina and boobs. Second No,I would hate her\him the same,If she did not change anything BUT just the sex and her personality,manners and developement would stay the same yes I would feel the same.Plus if you have to make me choose between straight woman character,or gay character\lesbian character I will always go with the lgbt choice. Still please stop using phobies for men\women in this female characters threads. There is a woman that I know really well that hates men,they ruined her life literally,but she still likes male characters in anime and shows\movies. Phobies are a really delicate thread and it should to not be used in fictional blattery if it's not really related.

And I can hate even male characters,I hate some of them,But the thing is with male characters, they are always writed good,it's almost impossible to find a male character with poor characterization,

developement or lack of humanity traits. their developement as second characters too can't be judged,the main characters even as being cliche sometimes,they really show their originality in the continuity of the story,females instead not (watch steven universe,orange is the new black,american horror story,once upon a time,madoka magica and one piece then we can talk) that' is why it makes me angry,and people trying to give the faults to the fans for not liking a character, and judge them and say hey but you have to search and see if she is all about that, hey but she has more you have to see outside the box what? so are you saying that if people don't like a character are supposed to go,search on the scenes, her lines,her blog on internet, and read everything about her to make themself liking her? Ohh and I thought that people were supposed to like a character just spontaneusly,and the job for making fans undestand and like the character was actually the author job and not the fans. One more thing to add. Actually,if you DO support living gay people and gay rights,it's not fetishization. You can love gay porn and gay ships all you want and be free to dislike everything else,it's absolutely okey. Fetishization it's done when people use other people just as sexuals toys or just for their sexual pleasure,NOTHING MORE. And I absolutely see many men who watch straight porn fit the category. I had meet girls who were like that. Saying they had gay ships but were uncomfortable with real life gay people and not okey with gay rights. I immediatly broke ties. And by the way those friends of mine were loving female characters that I that makes the idea. In my experiences I used to see girls always get overly attached with a female character,and it always bugged me even when I was a little kid. There were girls obsessed for disney princess,they were all about I want to be like her she is so pretty so special,she got the prince look look And I was there with my lara croft action figure,then in teenage years it was bella from twilight,or Gabriella from High school musical and they were all saying Aww I want to be like her so much she is the best my love And here me again but...but alice from resident evil movie?no? As now we have these. Sorry I obviously misspelled and did some grammar errors here and there.

07:17:31 AM Jul 16th 2015
edited by Larkmarn

If you have a point, grammar, capitalization, and not making ridiculous walls of text would help get it across.

No one is going to read that mess.
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