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CheeseDogX
topic
05:58:46 AM Apr 17th 2011
Does anyone know if Camo was always meant to be Robinton's son, or if that was just chucked in for extra drama in "The Masterharper of Pern." Cuz before that book, there's absolutely no hint at all that Camo's any more than an especially child-like drudge to happened to befriend Menolly.
Snarf
11:03:57 AM Sep 19th 2011
edited by Snarf
In one of the Harper Hall series, Robinton seems to be taking an especially great interest in Camo's well-being after Camo was abused by another character, far moreso than one would expect such a high-ranking person to express for a bottom-rung servant in this setting. This either makes Robinton 1) an extremely enlightened employer or 2) someone with at least some personal attachment to Camo. After reading Masterharper it made sense to me that Camo was Robinton's son, whom he arranged to be employed by the Harper Hall in order to protect him as long as he could (and ensure that others looked out for him as well. In addition to being the Masterharper, Robinton is on good terms with most of the major craft Masters, the only Weyrleader on the planet until Lessa completes her mission, and probably at least a few of the Lord Holders as well. Anyone screwing with the Masterharper's son is not likely to enjoy the outcome).
Greenygal
02:46:03 PM Oct 8th 2011
It's mentioned in the portrait book The People of Pern, which was published in 1988. So it may or may not have been McCaffrey's idea from the beginning, but it definitely precedes Masterharper.
Freezer
topic
07:12:56 PM Dec 5th 2010
edited by Freezer
Arrow:Did anyone ever actually [accidentally Time Travel] due to poor imagining?

IIRC, a greenrider in Dragonseye confesses he did this when he pictured his destination at his favorite time of day, rather than probable current conditions.
CheeseDogX
05:54:21 AM Apr 17th 2011
edited by CheeseDogX
This is one of those cases where McCaffery seems to have trouble staying consistent. In "Dragonflight," Lessa's discovery of "timing it" was a big shock to F'Lar, and other dragonriders, even though a few books later timing is mentioned in the Ballad of Moreta's Ride, which is one of the traditional teaching Ballads, so presumably not only F'Lar but all of Pern knows it. IIRC, in the Moreta book, there's a part where she warns a young rider against the dangers of timing it, and the impression is given that the ability was pretty well known in her time. Presumably there were a lot of instances of accidental timing.
CheeseDogX
05:57:11 AM Apr 17th 2011
And of course, there's the obvious example of Lessa accidentally going back to her own childhood because she pictured Ruatha not as it was in the present, but as it had been then. But I'm sure that's not what you meant.
Snarf
11:06:52 AM Sep 19th 2011
edited by Snarf
Related: in All The Weyrs of Pern after timing 50 turns into the future to complete a mission, a rider forgets to picture himself back at his weyr in the past, and instead arrives back at the weyr to find another rider and dragon occupying his quarters.
Almaron
01:31:34 AM Apr 1st 2013
It's not inconsistent between books; it's more or less mentioned in Moreta that the existence of "timing it" is a secret kept by the Weyrwomen and Weyrleaders, but it occasionally gets discovered by people who envision their destination too vividly (K'lon, for instance). After Moreta died as a result of timing it, a number of weyr protocols were changed to prevent a repeat of the accident, and this could be the reason why the information wasn't known by the Ninth Pass (in addition to this, the Ballad of Moreta's Ride doesn't mention the timing it, so they wouldn't know of it from that). Alternatively, it could just be that one of the Benden Weyrwomen died before she could pass on the information to her successor...their levels did fall dangerously low for a while, remember.
134.226.1.229
topic
09:52:06 AM Nov 2nd 2010
What's all this about F'nor raping Brekke under Rape Is Love? As far as I can recall from Dragonquest, she was nervous about her first mating flight, he was concerned too (because the local bronze riders were used to doing it with Kylara, who seems to be implied to into rough stuff), and they had perfectly consensual sex. Likewise, IIRC F'lessan and Tai were in a similar situation, except that she actually *had* basically been raped during mating flights and he was upset to find out.
Fighteer
moderator
09:54:39 AM Nov 2nd 2010
edited by Fighteer
Dunno, it seems like the fan accepted interpretation of those scenes. Brekke did resist F'nor out of fear, so it could be said that he forced her against her will despite her later capitulation. Just because she decided she liked it afterwards doesn't make it not-rape.
CheeseDogX
05:48:44 AM Apr 17th 2011
I've read that section again since having read that Rape Is Love example, and I still don't see it as rape.
Greenygal
02:38:06 PM Oct 8th 2011
"He wanted to be gentle, but unaccountably she fought him."

Generally, when your partner is fighting you—not to mention protesting and pleading, both of which Brekke also does in that section—it means *they want you to stop*. And when you have sex with someone who wants you to stop—yes, even if that person loves you and would probably want to have sex if they were less panicked and inexperienced—then it's rape.
Freezer
topic
09:09:59 PM Apr 22nd 2010
edited by Freezer
Clipped this from Dis Continuity:

Uh....what fans have YOU been reading? In fandom, the overwhelming majority of male green riders are depicted as stereotypical flaming gay men (with no small help from canon) and a lot of blue riders get either this, or Everyone Is Bi. FEMALE green riders are heterosexual, but that's also canon. Where Dis Continuity may come in is with what this means for all those (canonically straight) bronze and brown riders whose dragons decide to chase greens. Though most fans are happy enough, again, to make them situationaly bi, too.

This would be a valid rebuttal if we were talking about RP Gs and fanfiction. We're not: we're talking about the books themselves. And the "Everyone Is Gay" theory of Greens and Blues is rejected not because of morality, but because the statistical improbability of EVERY blue and male green rider being gay.
CheeseDogX
05:46:42 AM Apr 17th 2011
I can't remember where I read this, perhaps in "The Dragonlover's Guide to Pern," so I have no idea if it's canon or not, but I do recall reading somewhere that if a straight bronze or brown rider's dragon mates with a green, the riders will often insure they have a partner with them aside from the other rider, if one or the other isn't interested in the other rider.
sstabeler
07:11:21 AM Oct 25th 2012
This is actually related to one of Anne Mccaffrey's more outdated beliefs. When she came up with the series, some poeple, including Anne, believed that if you engaged in homosexual sex, you would become gay. This has never actually been shown in the books, thankfully, and I believe Anne Mc Caffrey now says it is down to what the dragons look for during Impression, but that's why.
Almaron
01:36:55 AM Apr 1st 2013
Although this was official (and also Fan Discontinuity) for a long time, this has more or less been retconned by Sky Dragons; a scene halfway through flat out stated that...actually, rather than describe it, I'll just repost the text from the Wiki:

"Green and blue riders, she was discovering, were hard to keep in one category. With browns it was even more so. Only the bronzes and queens were steadfast in their preferences. The rider of a female green could be the dominant partner in a relationship, although that role was more prevalent among blue riders. And while the male riders of greens were more likely to prefer male partners, it wasn't always the case. Based on her experience of the last four Turns, the only thing that seemed certain to Xhinna was that when dragons rose to mate, passions flowed freely, with the controlling passion being that of the dragon's over the rider. At other times, riders were free to follow their own hearts."

This seems to be building off a fan theory which can be read here (http://www.dragonchoice.com/on-impression/).
Fighteer
moderator
topic
07:26:42 AM Mar 22nd 2010
I can't help but wonder if people aren't getting a bit too Sue-happy. On what basis is Jaxom being described as a Canon Sue? I've read through all of the Sue archetypes and he doesn't fit any of them. The only thing I can think of is that maybe he should go under The Wesley... but there's this big bold note at the bottom of that article:

Keep in mind that even though this is a Subjective Trope, only blatantly obvious or creator-acknowledged examples should be listed in the folders below. Please avoid injecting personal opinions into these entries. Thank you.

Are there really that many Pern fans who hate Jaxom?
Freezer
09:04:53 PM Apr 22nd 2010
Yes. Yes there are.
Fighteer
moderator
06:44:04 AM Apr 23rd 2010
Fine, but he still doesn't actually fit any of the Sue tropes.
CheeseDogX
05:44:10 AM Apr 17th 2011
I may be in a minority, but I personally like Jaxom. This may create bias in the other direction, but I never understood why he's considered a Sue either.
Almaron
01:47:10 AM Apr 1st 2013
He never really bothered me either, but then again I never really paid much attention to him; I was more interested in whatever Ruth was doing. I think the fan hate came because he's both a Lord Holder and a Dragonrider, and he gets to share screen time with F'lar and Lessa as a main character. Course, it's not as though it's not justified in each of the stories...I can't recall any moment where he's present at a place when another character of a similar rank would be barred?
Fighteer
moderator
topic
12:32:54 PM Mar 19th 2010
Picking up on a conversation from the archived discussion and also continued in the forums.

Fighteer
moderator
07:11:46 PM Mar 20th 2010
Overhaul underway and looking good. Evidently nobody watching the page has had any serious objections so far, but please post if you are concerned.
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