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tsstevens
topic
01:41:17 PM Feb 4th 2013
The site owner himself has discussed The One With and said they should stay. Please leave them alone.
OldManHoOh
topic
11:27:54 AM Jul 29th 2012
Regarding this film being the first true sequel...wasn't Diamonds Are Forever an (unspoken) continuation of Teresa's death by Blofeld in On Her Majesty's?
Westrim
topic
04:01:15 PM Jul 2nd 2012
edited by Westrim
Concerning the Faux Action Girl entry, I did read the trope, that's why I removed the entry. The tropes specifically states that the person must have a reputation as a fighter, and she doesn't. Bond even coaches her on how to handle her first kill. Seeking revenge doesn't make someone an action person of any variety.
forsetipurge
08:40:20 PM Jul 5th 2012
No, Bond merely gives her moral support. We see on that very scene that she knows how to strip a gun, and then, later on, she does fight Medrano hand-to-hand, after shooting two bodyguards. In fact the first scene of Camille is that she shoots Bond right away. Still saying the movie doesn't suppose her as an action person?

But the problem is that Camille's basics doesn't translate in real fight. As in, Bond-class fight. While Bond is maneuvering the boat in Haiti, she ends up passing out. While Bond is dogfighting against the chopper, she chooses to jump before him, taking the only chute. While Bond evades arrest in the hotel, she bails out, too, saying "it's not her fight." When she fights Medrano, it takes grace of God (shards just happen to be around her hand's reach, just think if they're not) for her to defeat him.

Conclusion: calling Camille not an action person, it's positively stupid. She can fight all right. I have listed scenes that prove so. But "can" isn't equal with "does." Her reputation, which the movie builds, doesn't mean anything in real fight. She's too much a bailer, hence Faux Action Girl.

I'm reentering the trope.
Westrim
09:34:04 PM Jul 5th 2012
Telling someone how to breathe during the shot and to listen to their training seems like coaching to me. It also seems like a statement that that's all she has- training. She got trained on a firing range, she was trained in a self defence or martial arts course, but before she linked up with Bond she had never been in combat. Training counting for nothing is also specifically stated on the trope page to not be a qualifier. If you haven't read the trope yet, I suggest you do so so we're on the same page. I don't recall her first scene with Bond completely, although I'm pretty sure she only shot AT him, and missed, possibly because it was her first time shooting at someone.
Jordan
09:51:55 PM Jul 5th 2012
I agree. Camille is almost the inverse of a Faux Action Girl- she's someone who doesn't really have a background as a fighter, but thanks to some training, manages to be fairly competent. She's probably more competent than most if not all "Bond girls", even (especially?) the ones who actually were supposed to have a background in combat.
TheInferno
06:38:08 AM Jul 6th 2012
I re-pulled the example since not everyone had gotten a chance to reply to the discussion before it was re-added.

Now, if I'm understanding the situation correctly (I haven't seen this movie) Camille has not actually been in combat or have a reputation at all for fighting, right? The line on Faux Action Girl, "Please note that a Faux Action Girl is someone who has a reputation as a fighter.", would seem to disqualify her on that regard, and "If she has just started fighting and doesn't have the experience/fame handy still, she's likely Skilled, but Naive or a Na´ve Newcomer, and there's still room to see if she can grow into a real Action Girl or not."

However, as I said, this is all second hand from what I've read here. I haven't seen the movie, so my opinion probably doesn't matter as much here, and I could be completely wrong on a lot of facts. I figured I might as well chime in my two cents as long as I was here, though.
forsetipurge
03:20:37 PM Jul 6th 2012
edited by forsetipurge
Westrim, I did read the trope, and I am not mistaken. And just so we're on the same page here, I recommend that you watch the movie again. First off, I never said anything about training, which anyway is never mentioned in trope description. I said about Camille's reputation. As Faux Action Girl reads, "She's established from the very beginning as a powerful, capable hero but never does anything heroic." Camille is established very early as a capable woman, but the movie doesn't follow up.

So, Camille's first scene. She doesn't miss; Bond DEFLECTS her gun. Hers is too fast a reflex for someone who never gets into action. In fact this scene is supposed to be her Establishing Character Moment. Here we are shown that this Bond girl is as quick to kill as Craig's Bond, as ruthless and trigger-hairy, and thus as action-based. From this scene we can reasonably suppose she'll shoot her way like a badass, a genuine Action Girl.

But no.

On the boat chase, she got knocked out. On Greene's party, Bond had to rescue her before Greene pushed her off the balcony. On dogfight and hotel arrest, she bailed. On hotel fight, she only shot two idle mooks (far cry from Bond's gunfight) and got her ass kicked by Medrano until she reached out the shards.

All these scenes are incongruous with Camille's first scene. Hence Faux Action Girl.
forsetipurge
09:26:53 AM Jul 25th 2012
Three weeks have passed.

Nobody has replied my point.

Three weeks and nothing. No sense in letting this argument drag on indefinitely. Anyone with legitimate complaint would have replied within 3 weeks, for it's more than enough time to reply. But no one has. Yes, that includes you, Westrim.

This argument ends here. I am adding the trope. Anyone who deletes it will be reported to moderator.

Thanks.
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