Can we add Evil Counterpart to Ruby since she seems to be one.
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While Ruby and Cinder are Foils, Evil Counterpart is the wrong foil trope. They're Insecure Protagonist, Arrogant Antagonist, which is already on their pages.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Could we add Manipulative Bitch to Cinder? We have seen her be a master manipulator.
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Edit: trying again because I misread your post as Magnificent Bastard.
I think that, until Volume 8, she's been more of an Opportunistic Bastard; the Fall of Beacon is more a case of the fandom giving her credit for Salem's plan and Watts' hacking, when really the only the bit that was actually Cinder was her ability to adapt to changes happening on the ground, which is better covered by Opportunistic Bastard rather than Manipulative Bastard or The Chessmaster. The only time she really becomes a genuine contender for both those tropes is in Volume 8, and only after Watts' "The Reason You Suck" Speech.
The other thing you need to bear in mind is that a character is usually either The Chessmaster (manipulates events) or Manipulative Bastard (manipulates people) rather than both. Cinder is already listed as The Chessmaster (manipulates events). So, you need to ask yourself whether she's either/or, or whether an argument can be made for her being both.
So, I suppose it depends on what example you'd write for her.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
AGodAmI
Does anyone else think that Cinder qualifies as a Dragon with an Agenda? She serves Salem purely to get power for herself, lies to and disobeys her when she wants to.
I know she technically isnt The Dragon but The Heavy with an agenda isnt a trope
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her Hide / Show Replies
That's shoehorning. It might be worth looking into whether there's a missing trope for The Heavy with an agenda, however.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
If Cinder is not Ruby’s Arch-Enemy why do other websites claim that she and Ruby’s are archenemies.
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We're not troping other websites. Arch-Enemy has a specific trope description, and that's what we're troping. Cinder's obsession with Ruby is not reciprocated. As soon as Ruby learns about Salem, her focus becomes Salem, something that become increasingly significant over time due to the increasingly personal stakes for Ruby in terms of both her powers and her mother's fate.
Salem's not Ruby's Arch-Enemy either (she's Ozpin's).
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
The Dog Bites Back has been added, removed and then added again without edit reason.
It was removed for being trope misuse.
When an innocent person does this in response to the abuse they've received, it needs to be a revenge trope. The Dog Bites Back is for an already-evil underling who suddenly turns on the boss for all the abuse they've suffered. Cinder wasn't evil when this happened, she was a child who was being abused, meaning this trope isn't in play.
- The Dog Bites Back: After five years of having to put up with her adoptive "family's" constant abuse, she finally reached her breaking point and killed them in cold blood, saving the cruel Madame for last.
FYI, I've already brought it up on the "Is this an example?" thread here
for further feedback.
Sorry, only just spotted this. It's weird how some pages flag on my watch list when the discussion page is used but others don't. I did see the query on the thread, however.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
As what GastonRabbit and Synchronicity pointed out to me on this ATT, it may be worth discussing The Dog Bites Back on a separate thread at Trope Talk, since the description of the trope is too long and underling-centric (the trope doesn't have to be a strictly underling example).
After further discussion on this thread, Synchronicity and Adept pointed out that the "dog" is usually not villainous. It’s about a sympathetic character/thing the villain treats a certain way. They also act more of a Plot Device to reveal something about the person interacting with them (whether their cruelty, kindness, or something else), so they're more often than not just random civilians not affiliated to the villains/heroes.
Well, Cinder doesn't fit the 'just a Plot Device' role, but that is the role she played in that specific episode, as it's how the family, Rhodes and Salem all interact with her that reveals something about them.
That's probably what the entry needs to be about based on that idea: the way the family and Rhodes interacted with her and led her to snapping defined the person she now is and her relationship with Salem.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
I'm not the one who added this, but: how is Evil Wears Black trope shoehorning due to black not being limited to villains when RWBY.Tropes C To D has both Dark Is Evil and Dark Is Not Evil listed?
Edited by Qyriad
Why is she not a Darth Vader Clone? Her story is using the notes for a clone practically as a checklist.
Edited by torru369
More of a general question: It seems that Cinder is incapable of learning a lesson from her mistakes. Even when she sort of straightened herself out in Volume 6, she just relapsed into letting her ego get in the way and hasn't learned from all her defeats. Is there a trope for being unable to learn mistakes, or am I just missing something from her page? Thanks
As of this week's episode, does anyone else feel that Cinder qualifies as The Starscream to Salem's Megatron? Obviously can't trope it yet, but I just wanted to see what people think.
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My suggestion would be to start this discussion on the discussion page for the episode recap.
That way, you won't spoil anything by asking questions about what tropes apply, and no-one will spoil anything with the answers they give.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
This was commented out some time ago for a discussion, which appears to have either never happened or been resolved. It was just uncommented it, which is what reminded me that the entry was supposed to have been discussed and resolved.
As I recall, I believe the issue was originally over whether there's enough of a dissonance between the child-like behaviour and the psychopathic behaviour. The entry just reads like she's a psychopath who has temper tantrums, which isn't the trope.
- Psychopathic Manchild: While Cinder is very powerful, intelligent, and dangerous, her desire for power, determination to flaunt her power over those she considers inferior, determination to retaliate against any perceived slight against her in the worst possible way, and constant bragging about how such things as the Maiden powers are worthy of her and her alone all combine to make her sound like a petulant spoiled brat throwing a tantrum because no one's kissing her ass. The mere fact that Jaune was able to land a single blow on her that only nicked her eyepatch is enough to send her into an Unstoppable Rage over his audacity, leading to her ranting at him over thinking he could actually fight her and trying to kill Weiss purely to spite and hurt him. When trying to steal the Winter Maiden power from Fria, Cinder degrades more and more into this as Fria edges closer to her death and she desperately attempts to claim her powers for herself, screaming in a shrill voice that Fria's powers are hers, not Penny's.
As of this week's episode, does anyone else feel that Cinder qualifies as The Starscream to Salem's Megatron? Obviously can't trope it yet, but I just wanted to see what people think.
Should Cinder have the Arch-Enemy trope to Ruby and Jaune?
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The Arch-Enemy is the enemy the hero regards as their Arch-Enemy. It's usually mutually personal. Cinder has no interest in Jaune and Cinder's interest in Ruby is one-sided. It's Personal is certainly at work for both Cinder (to Ruby) and Jaune (to Cinder), but Arch-Enemy isn't.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Is there a real need to give Cinder her own page ? Because I don't think that she has enough tropes about her to justify her getting her own page, nor that she should be the first RWBY character to get her own page.
Would Cinder count has Hated By All? As all the protagonists hate her, she is a wanted fugitive for her crimes, Mercury only sees their relationship as business, even Emerald turns away from her, even the other members of Salem's faction don't care for her.
Edited by Phantom25