Show-Sombra and comic-Sombra are treated as distinct characters for the purposes of character pages and assigning tropes. Tropes pertaining to his IDW characterization are kept in his folder in the Expanded Universe character page. Since he's not established as being anything more than a unicorn in the show, and everything pertaining to him being an umbrum is comics-only, that's not material that can be included here.
"Magic also cannot resurrect the dead in any way in MLP. This was established al the way back in season one." — could you be more specific?
Twilight quickly strikes down the notion of ghosts or zombies existing in Bridle Gossip. If the dead can’t be brought back halfway like that, then bringing them back fully to life shouldn’t be possible either. The Golden Oaks Library would have been regrown if that weren’t the case.
You are reading WAY too much in unrelated details. If one can bring back the dead, it's certainly Discord and nearly limitless Chaos magic. That no other creature is powerful enough to do that wouldn't be surprising.
And the comics and show are indeed different continuities; you can't infer anything conclusive from them.
Amateur Veteran
So, the page is getting long and apparently needs to be split. Should the non-arc villains be bundled off into their own page, or do the major players seem like they have enough to split off in their own pages? Honestly, with how many folders just contain redirect links, I don't think there's too much lost in just going ahead and making this page a redirect hub in general.
Edited by Theriocephalus Hide / Show Replies
Not to be pushy, but the length issue very much remains. Personally, I'm in favor of just biting the bullet and making this a hub for individual villains' pages.
Non-arc villains is mostly redirects. Without splitting all the villains into individual pages, the biggest entries being split would be a minimum.
I'm in favor of giving Chrysalis, Sombra, Tirek, and Cozy their own pages. Grogar could be put under Historical Figures, and I think Nightmare Moon could be put on the Princess page since she's an aspect of Luna. That just leaves the Tantabus, which could be considered a Dangerous Creature.
That's probably a good plan, although for personal preference I'd lean more towards giving Nightmare Moon her own page. If there's not enough material for it, however, then yeah, she might as well go in the Princesses page.
Edited by Theriocephalus
Nightmare Moon isn't so much redeemed than a Superpowered Evil Side. She's a separate character from Luna.
^What he said.
Anyway, seems that Grogar and the Tantabus have already been moved by someone else. Should we go ahead with the rest of the split?
Edited by Theriocephalus
Non-arc villains are currently nothing but redirects, a split would be pointless. Isn't the page size problem already resolved by the recent moves?
"Non-arc villains are currently nothing but redirects" — ... I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Why are we talking about arc/non-arc villains now?
"Isn't the page size problem already resolved by the recent moves?" — it might be, I'll have a look later.
With the airing of "Daring Doubt", we've learned that Ahuizotl is actually an In-Universe case of Designated Villain, and in fact he's always been the heroic protector of the various relics that Daring Do "rescues" (steals from him). Given this... does Ahuizotl maybe need to be moved to the Redeemed Villains page? Or a sub-page there-of? I haven't made any major tweaks to his profile here, since I only know about the revelation from the tropes on the Daring Doubt recap page.
Same thing goes for Dr. Caballeron.
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Guys, Grogar is not a necromancer. There is no evidence that the dead can be resurrected or reanimated in MLP. And besides that, Sombra wasn’t even dead in the first place. The Crystal Heart didn’t kill him; it shattered his physical form and dissipated his shadow form, preventing him from reconstituting himself. Grogar simply put him back together and the Mane Six took him apart again. I know that sounds like death to us solid-bodied organisms, but Sombra isn’t even a unicorn; he’s an umbrum who can assume both a solid body and gaseous shadow state. As long as someone can disperse him into the ether and then restore him, I doubt he can ever truly be considered “dead.”
Should we mention that King Sombra is brought back from the dead by Grogar? Since Season 9 is around the corner, there should be updates on him.
Edited by SymBionicFan Hide / Show Replies
Generally speaking, I think that wiki policy is to hold back on pre-release information until confirmed officially. The trailer did clearly show that he's coming back, but given that I don't believe it's been confirmed anywhere official that Grogar brought him back from the dead, or for that matter how he came back from the dead, it may be best to wait a bit longer for the details.
Wait at least until the episode airs so we have the context to make the decision.
Amateur Veteran
Should we add Ahuizotl's cats here? I've got a pretty solid draft for them written up, and it seemed like a logical choice to at least give them a subsection in Ahuizotl's folder — a bit like the way Chrysalis and the changelings as a whole used to be listed before "To Where and Back Again".
Seeing as I can find no discussion on Sombra being moved here from the Redeemed Villains, I propose we move him back.
While the comics are indeed Loose Canon, they are still a part of the Fi M universe and Sombra was redeemed in them. To not count his redemption as canon is to say that all the backstory given to him in the comics is also not canon, thus we should remove all relevant tropes pertaining to it. But then that kinda sets the precedent that the wiki doesn't consider the comics canon and thus what to do with the rest of the comics content.
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Agreed, unless the show outright decanonizes the comics' backstory and events.
Edited by Arawn999
The stated reason Sombra was moved was that the Redeemed Antagonists page was getting overly long. For that matter, should we move the changelings (sans Chrysalis) there (I'd say we wait and see how/if their handled in Season 7)? If we move them (Sombra and changelings) to Redeemed Antagonists, it would be so big compared to the other villains page it may need a subdivision (or we move some of them to other pages). Just an FYI.
Well, I'm still in the camp that Starlight should have her own page, even if she isn't a "formal" Mane 7 member. Sunset gets hers, and while I'm an unapologetic raging Sunset fanboy who prefers her far more, I see no reason Starlight can't have her own too. That'll probably take a good chunk of the page off.
Any further thoughts on this? I'm leaning to splitting off Starlight again, given she basically is a main character, regardless of Word of God's statements. And if Sunset can have her own page I see no reason Starlight can't.
Her split will free up room to also move Sombra over.
I think that Sombra stay good in this page. At this point, everyone know that the comics is at least a separate universe.
I strongly disagree, the comics are Loose Canon, not a separate universe.
MagBas
- Expy: For Amon, the first antagonist of The Legendof Korra series. Both are villains with good publicity who are motivated with the idea of making everybody/pony equal by forcibly stripping them of their abilities and talents. They even succeeded in rendering the heroes normal for awhile. They are also known to be hypocrites who lie to their followers about their equalizing powers and ultimately lose their total support when they've been exposed.
This is a frequently misused trope and this example was put and removed more than one time, by different editors. Putting here to avoid an edit war.
Should I add Flat Character to the entry on King Sombra?
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Context?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
The folder in Friendship Is Magic: Major Villains that is about King Sombra. Flat Character in NOT one of the tropes mentioned there, and so I wanted to know if I should add it.
... meaning what's the context you'd put on the entry?
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
How about... This: Flat Character: A common complaint made against him. His characterization is nonexistent, especially in comparison to the show's other villains, and there is barely any backstory for him to speak of. But more then that, he doesn't have any meaningful interaction with the other characters!
JohannDouglas
Do preview appearances count for Glamour Failure? In the Equestria Games previews, a pony is seen using Chrysalis' green-colored magic aura. This hints that Chrysalis returns.
Love this town too much to leave.
Why isn't Flash Sentry on this list? I mean seriously, people.
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I'm guessing because his story arc was cut for time. You only find out he was manipulating Sunset Shimmer the entire time by Word of God.
Should the Pony of Shadows be here or in the Ghost Story character section? Most of the tropes listed came from Applejack's story rather than the episode, and the figure from the end didn't do anything except stand there, and may not be related to the story of the Pony of Shadows at all.
Even if the figure from the end of the episode is related to Applejack's legend, putting a character that hasn't been villainous on the villain page is kind of disingenuous.
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I pretty much agree with that. We barley know anything about it. It could be a future antagonist or it could be something that will never be mentioned again like Sombra’s horn. But let’s just wait for the Season 4 finale: If it turns out that he’s actually a good guy or not appearing at all we can still move him into another folder.
Enhhhh... The Pony of Shadows hasn't done anything evil yet, but has been a ghost story character. So far, they fit better there.
If the Pony of Shadow ever does anything evil, they can be moved back here. A character shouldn't be listed as an antagonist until they do something antagonistic.
Call me stupid for this one, but I don't really think Ahuizotl belongs here. He may fit for Dangerous Creatures though.
Edited by 131.118.228.9 Hide / Show Replies
He may not be a two-parter antagonist, but he still matches the description of a Major Villain. His “800 years of heat”-scheme puts him on the same level as Sombra, NMM & Co. and - as we’ve learned in Read it and Weep - his main goal is indeed world domination.
I gave him the Hero of Another Story treatment. He is a major villain, and he's likely to have major effects, but he's doing it elsewhere.
Isn't it a bit to early to add the Pony of Shadows? Yes he is probably going to be the big bad of this season, but until we actually have a proof it's nothing more than speculations.
We need to talk about that Discord picture. Someone keeps changing it even though the antler can't be seen.
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There was already a discussion, and the moderator already changed it back.
No, not the screen shot, but I can fix a vector one that can show the antlers.
Sombra is not dead and has never died. He’s an umbrum, not a regular pony; having his body displayed by magic doesn’t actually kill him if he can be reconstituted. Magic also cannot resurrect the dead in any way in MLP. This was established al the way back in season one.
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