Fire Emblem

Yeah. In Birthright they use magic to disguise Azura and Garon still sees through it. How does Conquest handle that chapterfight?

No one ever sees through it. Hell, Corrin doesn't know it was Azura until she frigging tells Corrin.

Like I said: Conquest has everyone inhale the Idiot Ball

I mean, for all I defended the scene just minutes ago, it was basically this.

Conquest only explains the wrong things.

I sure said that!

Garon knew becase Zola told him.

Not to mention Takumi is an unwilling spy too.

I assume no one cold rell it was her cause of all thw water blocking their view. Garon gets a boner I mean started going crazy with eyes rolling back.

Corrin being an idiot is a thing in all routes. I don't blame Conquest for that.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

They're a really naive idiot in Conquest and a raging idiot in Birthright. They aren't supremely idiotic in Revelation, at least, even if they're not exactly a genius either.

I sure said that!

Blind Lunatic Revelation 20 and probably some kid recruitment.

FE: New Mystery Fresh Cart Lunatic 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Expert Unicorn Overlord 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

I honestly haven't felt that Corrin is an idiot, so far, and I've completed Conquest and am halfway through Birthright. Naive and sheltered? Absolutely. But that's a different thing altogether.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

liek dis if u cri everytiem

Still amused TMS#FE made a song from that theme.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Birthright Chapter 15 was fairly dull, but the slow pace made it easy to position and reposition everyone for optimum EXP and shipping spread.

Edit: Nevermind

edited 28th May '16 2:26:37 AM by RangerJackWalker

I don't see Corrin as an idiot, s/he just is an extreme Paragon Shepard, who doesn't even pick the most common Renegade interrupts. With the upbringing s/he had, it is understandable. The biggest difference with Robin is that there was no grey in Awakening, just black and white, making all morality issues rather moot.

eh? even in Birthright it's not gray. It's pretty clearly black vs white, with feels along the way because family.

that said, i wouldn't call corrin an idiot either- all his actions have reasons, and they're fairly good ones.

it's mostly the hypocriticalness found in the games that get me.

edited 28th May '16 4:53:55 AM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae

Trusting Zola was not a smart decision. Leo even warned them about that. And there was gray in there concerning most of the playable characters you fight on that route not being bad, the entire Subaki support about a Hoshidan family that wants Azura dead, slaughtering the wolves, planning assassinations in Neutral nations while condemning Nohr for such tricks, finishing what Garon started and crushing what's left of the Ice Tribe.

We even learn later Hans keeps his men in line as they die on your blade by threatening to murder their loved ones.

Of course it's not as gray as Conquest.

edited 28th May '16 5:16:21 AM by OmegaRadiance

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Yeah, Birthright is really not as black-and-white as some people think. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Nohr is not the evil kingdom, not any more than Grado was the evil kingdom in Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones. Just because Grado has people like Valter and Caellach, it doesn't mean that the kingdom itself is evil. Same with Nohr. There's more to Nohr than just Hans and Iago, and it's pretty clear that while Hoshido is meant to be the victim of invasion, Nohr is meant to be the victim of corruption by an inhuman force.

Blazing Sword Chapter 16: Whereabouts Unknown

This chapter went a lot better than the last one. The narrow passageways made it a lot easier to protect my ranged attackers. I also got some new party members, Raven and Lucius. Things might get awkward between him and Hector, though... There were also a few NPC soldiers. The one with the Javelin and the Vulnerary was kinda badass, being the only one who could defend himself against the box of Shamans. The other two died, though. One got killed by the Shamans, and the other attacked the chapter boss, with predictable results. I also got some promotion items out of this mission. I promoted Bartre in this chapter, and Oswin in the side quest after this one. I hope I'm not making too big a mistake by promoting people as soon as I can. This chapter also marks the farthest I've even gotten in this game. Aside from having looked up the conditions for unlocking characters and sidequests, I'm now going in blind.

New Party Members: Raven (Mercenary), Lucius (Monk)

Promotions: Bartre (Fighter -> Warrior)

Casualties: None

Blazing Sword Chapter 16x: The Port of Badon

Well, this was a nice change of pace from just having to slaughter everything in sight. If I'd tried that, I'd have gotten slaughtered myself by the overleveled Pirates, a point Hannah and the villagers made very clear. I did get a new character out of this, though. Canas the Shaman was a character I was looking forward to meeting from seeing him mentioned around this site, and he did not disappoint. I like his style. I also got a Devil Axe from having Marcus go out to one of the other houses. That was as far as I was willing to push that, though. I was thinking of sending him up to the house in the northwest corner of the main section of the map, but I thought better of it after realizing the overleveled group could pin him in there. This mission made me really miss Florina and her flying ability. So, sneaking around the back alley it was. I had Eliwood get a Mend staff for Serra at the vendor. But the following turn, the pirate Mage moved. This Is Gonna Suck, I thought to myself as the Mage nailed Eliwood with an Elfire. He did survive it with 7 HP left. I wasn't having any more of that nonsense, and on my very next turn I talked to Fargus to end the chapter. Well, I like to imagine it as Eliwood making a running dive past him into the water to douse himself, but hey, whatever.

New Party Members: Canas (Shaman)

Promotions: Oswin (Knight -> General)

Casualties: None

The Living Guildpact rules that coffee is an acceptable substitution for rest as specified in subsection … whatever.

Awakening is far more grey than much of Fates wants to be. The stories constantly ignore the any major greyness done by the likes of major characters like, say, Ryoma, who basically cuts a bloody swath through Nohr, YOLOing his way through the Nohrian countryside with the entire important leadership of Hoshido, and basically leaving the rest of his kingdom to suffer. And no one calls him on it. Not a one. He treats Shiro like shit and the only person to call him on it is Shiro himself, to which the game still mostly treats Ryoma as right because he's the parent, duh! And that's without getting in to the crap he does in Conquest. Seriously, they should have just killed off that useless asshole and replaced him with his far more competent son.

Nohr is still pushed hard as the evil country, as well. The card-carrying villains are constantly flaunted over and over. They're 99% the face of Nohr while the only sympathetic parts provided aside from "look how awesome Corrin's friends are" a bunch of after-thoughts crammed into the tail end of Birthright. Almost like they were so busy crapping on Nohr that they thought, "Oh, shit, we need to put something redeeming! Uh... We still haven't implemented the last three chapters, right?"

Fates nuances are so downplayed or ignored by the stories themselves that the conflict might as well be taken as the poor, innocent Hoshido, which can do no wrong, versus the terrible, mustache-twirling Nohr.

Meanwhile, everything bad that happens in Awakening is pretty much Chrom's dad's fault. You know, the former King of the good kingdom. Chrom's dad waged a war of aggression on Plegia because gotta murder them heathens, which in turn pushed Plegia toward the Grimleal. The damage is so lasting that both countries are left in ruin and Plegia later wages a revenge war (one that Chrom even admits that the Plegians have some justification behind). The Plegians are also given more nuance by not only showing that they morally object to continuing the war, but later deserting Gangrel. Empowering the Grimleal so much also puts the world in peril of being destroyed by Grima (noting that Ylisse's counter-strike and victory as it was only served to make things worse in the long run). This also draws the attention of Walhart, who would be content to smash his way to the Grimleal and then smash things even more (all in the name of saving the world).

Those over-leveled guys actually have pretty poor stats for their levels (the scariness of their power generally comes from their weapons). They're more or less meant to be EXP pinatas, since their higher levels mean that taking them down gives a ton of it. These poor stats tend to persist through the entirety of the game and there will come a point where the enemy starts making really poor gear choices, creating a difficulty drop.

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You say this, and yet while Awakening does briefly discuss Chrom's father's atrocities, I don't recall it really being discussing after Gangrel's defeat, so I don't know if Awakening's really much better here.

Oh God! Natural light!

Really? The game treats Ryoma in the right for his treatment of Shiro? Either your standards for bad parental treatment is different from mine, or you're engaging in some serious Ron the Death Eater here, because I do not recall the game ever saying that Ryoma was completely in the right with his treatment of Shiro. My interpretation is that Ryoma did what he thought was best for Shiro, and realized that his decision wasn't exactly the best one. Also, I'm looking at his supports with Shiro right now, and he does not treat Shiro like shit. Sure, he's going for the stern mentor approach, but definitely not the 'treat my own son like shit' approach.

So, in other words, not so different from what every other Fire Emblem game did. I think the word you're looking for here is 'antagonistic,' because Nohr sure as hell isn't treated differently from the likes of Akaneia, Grannvale, Bern, Caelin (in Lyn's story), Grado, Daein, Begnion, and Plegia in terms of antagonism. Sure, every one of those kingdoms had their fair share of assholes, but none of them are evil. Nohr is no different.

At least Chrom's dad was called out, even demonized. It's also done early, which informs the entire narrative.

Meanwhile, Ryoma gets away with acting like a dick and no one cares. And then the non-Corrin-aligned Nohrians (since the characters close to the player are supposed to be sympathetic; which is why I didn't include Tharja or Henry in Awakening's favour) get after-thought sympathy that doesn't even last because the game's basically already over at that point.

Awakening's execution is much better, if by nothing else other than its timing.

EDIT: The game treats Shiro like an unruly teenager when he's actually really mature. Ryoma ordered Shiro's servants to inform him of nothing and train him in little more than fighting, then gives him shit when surprise, surprise, Shiro isn't worldly at all. Ryoma gives Shiro crap for training in the lance as a tactical decision and treats Shiro like he's all arrogant and stuff when... he pretty much isn't. This is after Ryoma runs off to attack Nohr and puts both his family and country in danger from his recklessness. Consider also that Shiro afterward even has to state that his attitude isn't that bad, like he actually has a bad attitude? He has a lot of good points, yet the game plays the paternity card so that Ryoma doesn't have to admit that he's wrong. So, not only is Ryoma is a huge hypocrite and it's glossed over because the game never calls him out for YOLOing off into Nohr, but he's consistently accusing Shiro of things that aren't demonstrated to be either there (despite the game apparently assuming it to be true) or his fault.

The examples you give are largely pretty black and white, which really isn't helping the argument. IIRC, Caelin doesn't fall into that, though, because her story is constantly gushing about how her existence is uplifting to the citizens, showing that Lundgren has a pretty poor approval rating from the start. Plegia has what I mentioned for the obvious reasons above.

Yes, because you posting while I'm replying to someone else, then trying to call me out three minutes later while I'm spending time writing out a detailed analysis means I totally have nothing, right?

edited 28th May '16 10:52:36 AM by KuroiTsubasaTenshi

FE: New Mystery Fresh Cart Lunatic 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Expert Unicorn Overlord 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

...So, not going to give any specific examples of Ryoma being an unjustifiable douche? Because just saying he's a dick over and over again without giving any examples isn't exactly convincing.

Reviewed their support conversation and, admittedly, he does get better about his behaviour in the B and A convos. But the fact remains that what I listed above is never addressed and the B and A convos still treat Ryoma as the wiser, right figure. In other words, the game and Ryoma are still unapologetic about the recruitment conversation, the C support and his generally endangering everyone throughout the campaign (oddly enough, Revelation does briefly have Saizo call that recklessness out for what it is, but... that's not in Birthright for whatever reason?).

edited 28th May '16 11:13:24 AM by KuroiTsubasaTenshi

FE: New Mystery Fresh Cart Lunatic 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Expert Unicorn Overlord 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

Ryoma's a dick over the REEL FAMULY crap in Conquest. Because he's no more Corrin's blood relation than Xander et al is, and he knows it.

Heart of Stone

It does show that both of them consider him to be as good as blood family, making them not so different than each other. Also, his logic could be as follows: the Avatar is Mikoto's child by blood, Mikoto is as good as a blood mother to me, therefore the Avatar is as good as blood family.

I'm looking at the script for Shiro's paralogue, and I'm still not seeing Ryoma acting like a jerk. I didn't see Ryoma acting like a jerk, I'm seeing the faults of both Ryoma and Shiro being brought out. Sure, Ryoma's not telling Shiro about his royal lineage wasn't a smart choice on his part and he's not really let off the hook for it, but his scolding of Shiro for his recklessness makes sense, especially since it's very possible that Shiro will get himself killed picking a fight with the enemies in his paralogue.

So yeah, still not seeing the "Ryoma is a dick."