Yeah, that's some thinking right there. Sure there is. I think the management needs to be replaced. Fire some engineers to, kill the money to scare the chickens as the Chinese say. Fire some of the dofuses in R&D and get some new blood in.

I believe it's monkeys, not money. And, er, you got the proverb backwards, it's the chicken that gets an example made of it.

EDIT: Getting someone sacked is tempting and all, but how many of those engineers responsible for the design of the G36 are still with H&K? If they still are, and have even gotten to high places, this ought to be spectacular.

edited 16th May '15 10:08:11 PM by Krieger22

Curse you carpel tuna!!

Seriously, what H&K needs is a clean house. It worked for Smith and Wesson, Ruger turned it's business around when it stopped pandering to the "gun control" crowd. Boeing fired Harry Stonecypher because having an affair while the company's fortunes are in the toilet shows that the CEO had his eyes elsewhere. "Zero tolerance for breaches of ethics."

If they continue on their present path, H&K becomes the Colt of the Rine: dependant on gov'ment contracts to keep solvent as they lose bid after bid. They've already priced themselves out of the civilian market (like Colt, ssrly a semi-auto M4 at $2k?), screwed up a major weapon system (ah that famous German engineering) what's next?

edited 17th May '15 1:05:59 AM by TairaMai

^ What's next? FN landing the G-36 replacement contract.

Ultimate humiliation for HK.

Let them reform or rot. Plenty of other European gunsmiths and Mittelstand companies who would leap at a chance to gobble up their market slice.

edited 17th May '15 9:11:10 AM by Achaemenid

That is just the most stupid mind numbing screw up. But then again shitty management and leadership does that.

H und K Is Up To Some Shady Shit.

Using the equivalent of the CIA to go after the press? That sounds like some 1980s Cyberpunk dark and shady shit right there.

Interesting that it never went further than a request; MAD told them to bolt.

Probably because MAD knew the consequences and fallout of doing so far outweighed any benefit either MAD or HK could get.

It's the classic "Are you stupid?" response by MAD.

Or as I like to call it, a classic "Zimmermann Response".

EDIT: It occurred to me that in the unique context of firearms and politics, I need to clarify. I meant the Zimmermann from WWI, who suggested the Mexicans should invade the US to keep the US out of a war with Germany. The response from the Mexican government was something along the lines of telling the Germans to bugger off.

edited 17th May '15 6:12:01 PM by AFP

Colt had a legal counsel and board member who was a FOB "Friend of Bill" (Clinton) in The '90s. During that time they pandered to the "gun control" crowd, jacked up prices and got scores of Army contracts. With a change of board members and new leadership, two changes in the White House and the loss of the M4 license, Colt changed...nothing.

As a result Colt's bleeding business in both the Civil and Military sectors. With the market snapping up M4 clones, ya'd think Colt would make out like bandits and not be going red in the ledger.

H&K looks to be headed in the same direction. If Germany turns their back on H&K...

Speaking of businesses bleeding money...

Rockwell Arms Files For Chapter 7 Bankruptcy.

Too many folks in the tacticool market trying to make AR-15 shite when not everyone wants AR-15s.

Market oversaturation will take its toll and things will balance out again.

FN Herstal should just buy both H und K and Colt. That is, buy the facilities and contacts, and shutter the names. Just call the first one "FN Deutschland", the second one "FN USA", brand the whole conglomerate the "FN Group" and consider it done.

Reason being that both the H und K and Colt company names are toxic now in their home countries for a whole constellation of reasons but some of their engineers are worth saving. Though, of course, none or mostly none of the senior managers at either company. Who, from my perspective at least, are shit at their jobs, greedy, incompetent or all of the above given their respective companies performances as of late.

That already exists. It's located in South Carolina.

I know. But I was talking about expanding that with all of the things they could get from Colt. Simple rebranding job once everything's in house and under good Belgian management.

Under new management, Belgian style! Good performance will be rewarded with waffles, while underperformers get the goedendag.

Yeah. It works though, don't it?

Don't see them going bust anytime soon.

Heh, 'effin USA!

The management of those two companies has gotten so horrid. Colt has effectively destroyed itself. HK could possibly be saved but I doubt it will happen.

I would like there to be a new competitor or at least new management in both cases. If FN has to compete it will help keep them making quality. Colt took their advantage for granted and it bit them in the ass hard.

FN's competition are Kalashnikov and the Chinese. Maybe some Steyr, Beretta or SIG on the sidelines but that's it - none of those three companies are making as many sales in the long arms side of things to military organizations as the Belgian, Russian and Chinese companies are.

H und K's name is dirt now, thanks to their government's slating of their service rifle, and Colt may be out of business again next week (again). Their only salvation would be an outside buyer and there's no way that the Germans or Americans would want that to be from Russia or China.

Except most US and western governments don't buy Russian or Chinese small arms.

This is true, but if FN doesn't take over H und K and/or Colt and fix them they may have no option. The Oberndorf firm is in a death spiral at the moment, what with them trying to get MAD to spy on folks, and getting not just chased off by them but caught by the press doing so.

If I was the German Defence Minister right now, I'd license build or plain flat out buy guns from Satan Arms!PLC if I got assurances that they wouldn't start melting after prolonged fire, let alone from Kalashnikov Concern.

That one seriously fucked up part still bakes my noodle. Even an amateur gunsmith should have gone "This is not a great idea".

Oh I know we may end up without a choice. There is a third option for Colt. The US gov takes over and makes them Colt GG to unfuck the company and then turn it back over to someone with more brain cells then last pack of loons.

Remember that Mosin-Nagant muzzle brake those guys made? They've made a 10 round mag mod for it.

I find it amusing he acknowledges the "Nyet! Rifle is fine tovarsich!" crowd in the article from that last one.

And I also found this.

edited 19th May '15 5:55:13 PM by MajorTom