Endemic misuse, needs to be split: Shape Shifting

Square Peg Round Trope syndrome on the Shapeshifting index. The criteria for this index is given in its opening statement: "The ability to change one's form".

But about half of the tropes on this index don't fit the description of being a character ability; they instead describe transformations as an event.

There is some overlap, yes: Shapeshifting is transformation as a power or special ability; transformation itself is a Super-Trope.

PS: Soft split vs. hard split is another point to discuss.

edited 17th Dec '10 11:06:35 PM by Stratadrake

Do we have a generic transformation index? If we have one, then we should go ahead and sort the articles properly. But if we don't, then I have no problem expanding the shapeshifting one into a general transformation one. There doesn't seem to be a big enough difference to warrant two indexes.

Actually, there's a big difference between the two. One is an inherent power. The other is an external force changing someone. They aren't the same thing. They're just easily confused. We need a solution that's going to help separate the two as they have very different narrative implications. I'm not sure if throwing them all in one place is going to clear up that confusion. It might even make it worse.

ShapeShifting only one type of transformation. There are others.

I agree with shima, thematically there's a HUGE difference between the two. If you were born a shapeshifter (or otherwise have that power over the long term), then transforming your body isn't a big deal to you. Because to most other people, the shape of their body is a general constant (you were born "with this one body, this one life" so to speak), so if suddenly you find your body has changed into something unfamiliar — say you got cursed with a Baleful Polymorph, or woke up one day and discovered you're suddenly a giant cockroach — that's a BIG deal.

edited 17th Dec '10 6:47:00 PM by Stratadrake

As much as I dislike the idea of splitting the index, there is some merit to avoiding confusion with "shapeshifter" and "shapeshifted".

So long as the tropes that could apply to both are kept on both indices, it gets my vote.

Edit: Odd is my post being eaten? Edit: yeah pretty much.

edited 17th Dec '10 4:15:34 PM by GiantSpaceChinchilla

IMO, there aren't many (or possibly any) that apply to both equally.

Interestingly, Wikipedia has only one article on the subject, called Shapeshifting, but being as it's Wikipedia the article's pretty large, but fortunately split by the various types.

edited 17th Dec '10 7:09:25 PM by Stratadrake

• Attack Of The 50 Foot Whatever: can be a transformation or a ability
• Incredible Shrinking Man: can be a transformation or a ability
• Breast Expansion: can be a transformation or a ability
• Dual Age Modes: can be a ability or a curse/transformation
• Empathic Shapeshifter: can be a ability or a curse/transformation
• Hulking Out: can be can be a ability, a curse/transformation, or both.

I'm sure I missed a few tropes.

edited 17th Dec '10 7:08:34 PM by GiantSpaceChinchilla

Hmm, apparently my interpretation of "ability" is broader than yours.

If it becomes a recurring event for that character, then it's an ability. They could be born with it, or they could have acquired it by Applied Phlebotinum, magic, a curse, what have you, but whatever the case, it reoccurs within the given work/series, making it a staple of their character profile.

my definition of ability would be "can control with a dash of internal to character"

whether or not it is within a characters profile I would not say for example unlucky is an ability even if it was a recurring event, regardless of source.

for example Dual Age Modes can be a person who can will oneself into two age categories or cursed to switch between the two, they could have been transformed by a virus, born that way, or under the influence of a spell which is ultimately unimportant because Tropes Are Flexible even if the trope were written in such a way that the intent of the author it still covers a person having two forms of different ages.

edited 17th Dec '10 8:44:11 PM by GiantSpaceChinchilla

No argument about your example of Dual Age Modes here.

At the same time, if a character gets cited for Dual Age Modes because, say, a curse locked them into the alternate-age form, that's misuse on the part of the editor because they can't actually shift between forms.

BTW, I forgot to mention the option of soft split vs. hard split somewhere.

[EDIT] I've taken a few whacks at a soft split. First is shapeshifting as a power, then transformations as an event, then an unsorted group with the rest.

edited 18th Dec '10 12:47:28 PM by Stratadrake

If someone becomes cursed to become a shapeshifter, they're still a shapeshifter. It's not how they got the ability that matters to qualify. It's that it's a part of the character and not some one time thing.

perhaps I should clarify that I did not mean locked into a different age which IIRC is Thirteen Going On Thirty, but cursed to switch to a different age without their control.

If a trope can apply to a shape-shifter or someone who was transformed it should be listed as such in either a hard or soft split is all I'm saying.

Stratadrake's definition would seem to be Voluntary Shapeshifting, which is linked under the Shapeshifing part of the description. Shapeshifting and Voluntary shape shifting seem so linked that I've why there are two tropes here in the first place. Can anyone explain?

It would seem that a single trope with headed breakdowns would be more than sufficent.

edited 19th Jan '11 1:15:34 PM by Jonti

Stratadrake's definition covers both voluntary and involuntary shapeshifters who are characters that transform repetitively throughout the series as opposed to just a one time transformation.

Shapeshifting itself is a Super-Trope, where Voluntary Shapeshifting is the most-common manifestation of it as a character's special power or ability. (That being said, there are probably a few more that should be nested underneath it, or maybe add another soft-split division)

And in most cases, the shapeshifter is depicted (sometimes even required) to use their power on a regular basis, because if they weren't it would risk becoming an Informed Ability.

edited 19th Jan '11 5:56:43 PM by Stratadrake

bump

I've actually just launched a page called Transformation Causes. Does that help anything? Perhaps it could eventually become a general page for transformation-based tropes...

There's a YKTTW I made called Humanshifting. I originally made it for shapeshifters that impersonate people and other humanoids, but then I broadened it to include all human-type shapshifters (like Tonks).

edited 6th Apr '11 4:44:32 AM by chihuahua0

Bump. Where are we?

More or less settled where I'm concerned. Unless anyone else has any concerns....

edited 17th Jul '11 9:52:34 AM by Stratadrake

the current page seems fine to me.