Shin Megami Tensei Series

Now I really have no idea how I stumbled on Neutral accidentally. I went with Walter.

So did I.

Also Final looks to be a tad Alternate History alongside timeline because of some differences I've pointed out. Likely more to come as well.

"look for something who talk"

Hey...I find a very solid defense for both Law endings of SMT II and SMT IV (AKA: Kill Sat the entire planet and Destroy Tokyo because they are Unclean).

I thing who is time to play as the Angel´s Advocate.

SMT IV Law ending defense is the most interesting. Specially when you talk about the word "unclean", we take it as "the angels and the people of Mikado are being asshole who hate everything" but actually is because, in their wisdom the angels use "unclear" as synonymous with "dangerous/problematic". The people of mikado use it as a vague fearful almost moral judgement. But the angels?

Merkabah calls Isabeau "unclear" but also a victim, he say also why your ultimate goal is protect people like her. How he and Flynn kill themselves with all Tokio?. He is a angel, he has a Omniscient Morality License because in the long term, eventually the world without Tokyo will be better, the Law ending sorta confirm it.

edited 5th Feb '16 5:58:46 PM by KazuyaProta

Actually I'm expecting we'll go alternate timelines where Flynn goes Law/Chaos like in IV with his previous Incarnation and it'll show that things got equally bad in both.

Oh, you poor naive bastard. This is Shin Megami Tensei; there's no such thing as a "better world." Mark my words: the people of Mikado will be alright at first...and then Sanat will decide to pay a visit to see how the "seeds" he planted have grown.

On a more serious note, I can never go on the Law route on IV except to get that little blue dot on my save screen and the Law-exclusive demons. There are still quite a few good people in Tokyo, and I do not feel that they deserve to all be killed just because some deluded angelic zealot decided that they must die just because they came into contact with demons.

It's not even demons. Just contact with Tokyo itself as Isabeau and her manga shows.

Oh yeah, I forgot that part. Yeah, that's even worse.

Hey, i just finded a interpretation for other guy and share it. And why i should care by a demon who only appear in a DLC?

Also, the unclear ones, read the interpretation again. Tokyo is a huge issues to Mikado. Is just the Needs Of The Many, also remember, all the Angels died in the Law Ending. Also, remember the childs laughting in that ending?.

My main issues with the canonical DL Cs, they make analize games harder.

edited 5th Feb '16 6:54:59 PM by KazuyaProta

Because the DL Cs show canon things that happen.

Because both Sanat and the Ancient of Days show that, no matter how hard you try to achieve a world of Law or Chaos, someone or something will always come to stir up trouble again.

I'll bet that in the Chaos ending, the Ancient of Days will come and visit as well. The only consolation is that Flynn will hopefully still be there to oppose it, as opposed to the Law ending where Flynn is dead.

But yeah, in the end, it all boils down to angels being insufferable assholes, as usual. "Oh, you laid eyes on Tokyo? Time to purge you from this world, Unclean One!" "Oh, you know about Tokyo? Die, filthy one!" "Oh, you're from Tokyo but had nothing to do with demons whatsoever? You are still Filth! Die, Filth!"

Though the Law ending does give us a valuable lesson: black hole beats God's chariot.

edited 5th Feb '16 6:57:08 PM by dragonfire5000

Again, the Angels has Blue-and-Orange Morality, and huge prediction skills. We need bunker_man (a reddit user, very interesting essays).

Every one is doing they own Alternative Character Interpretation, also, remember, the Law ending has a epilogue. Well, at least i´m not supporting SJ!Law ending...

edited 5th Feb '16 7:12:23 PM by KazuyaProta

They don't. They have Black-and-White Insanity.

Like OmegaRadiance says, angels do not have Blue-and-Orange Morality. Their morality is very simple to grasp: you either embrace YHVH as the one true god and worship him forever, or you die. Blue-and-Orange Morality actually has to be hard to understand and angels...angels are not hard to understand in this game.

Yes, I know there are exceptions to this, but overall, the morality of angels is not a hard thing to grasp.

edited 5th Feb '16 7:22:47 PM by dragonfire5000

I would've really liked to have been able to use Angel Zelenin and Demon Jimenez, even if only temporarily.

I got codes online to help me do that for my own personal storytelling.

Seriously, you don't even have to hack.

I'm intrigued. What do you mean by "personal storytelling?"

Like, I have Awake Jiminez on my team when you go and fight in Jack's HQ, and then keep him so when you go Chaos.

Mine has max stats.

That is a pretty good idea, actually. And no bugs?

Also, random headcanon: Zelenin's singing voice sounds like Adele.

No bugs.

You know the code for getting demons in-game? You can find elgit ones for Jiminez and Zelenin, no hack required.

I knew that, was wondering if there were bugs either way.

@Omega: Yeah, you're wrong. I just did a casing of post-Lucifer Tokyo and there's a whole bunch of npcs that stay dead and don't come back after you beat Lucifer.

(as for "it's alright to kill them because they were going to die anyway", looooooolllllll)

I did find out some interesting new info I missed on my first playthrough. Killing Lucifer drastically cuts down the number of demons in Tokyo. There's still some, but it's a much more manageable number. It always bothered me that so many people were being transferred into a demon infested city in the neutral end, and it wasn't clear if the Goddess of Tokyo fixed that problem, so this is very nice to know.

My belief is that Sanat is MIA in that timeline just like YHVH is. This may be refuted depending on what happens in Final, but as far as the base game goes I think the Law ending doesn't have to deal with that.

In Angel eyes, reading the manga makes you as good as a demon. After all, knowledge from unsanctioned texts can incite resentment and help you turn into a demon. So according to them anyone who's read one is a ticking time bomb and has to go.

An NPC in Neutral post-game mentions setting up a demon reservation, or something like that. I headcanon they used Toyosu, which is mostly uninhabitable anyway.

I've mentioned that before about Demon NP Cs vanishing upon Lucifers defeat.

And most of said NP Cs that disappeared were hunters, who an NPC points out that a lot of them ate red pills to become demons.

There were also NP Cs disappearing as you progress through the story before the alignment lock as well. You have to pay close attention and look for it though.

There's still all those people left in Toyosu, but you know the Reactor opening up finally allowed them to escape the nightmare the Ashura-kai trapped them in. The hunters even decide to stay and help them survive by hunting demons.

edited 5th Feb '16 8:48:29 PM by OmegaRadiance

You're thinking of Tennozu. Where they had the "beef." Toyosu is a poison-filled wasteland with an abandoned shelter and a community of recently-moved-in Naraku demons fleeing the angels.

edited 5th Feb '16 8:50:30 PM by HamburgerTime