Shin Megami Tensei Series

Lucifer will be on their side as well, because like him Demi-Fiend chose Freedom.

Also the whole being made in his image.

edited 3rd Aug '15 5:41:47 PM by OmegaRadiance

At the same time, it's hard to really call Freedom a true Chaos ending- No World of STR here.

Because chaos isn't limited to World of Strength as shown through side games.

See Devil Survivor, Raidou 2, Majin Tensei II (Wait you can't), and the Devil Children are all Chaos aligned in the Devil Children series.

edited 3rd Aug '15 5:45:13 PM by OmegaRadiance

If I had to guess a Freedom ending inspired sequel would have these endings:

• Law-You agree with YHVH that Demifiend is a threat that must be punished. Demifiend and/or Lucifer is the final boss.
• Chaos-You side with Lucifer in protecting Demifiend and become his new general.
• Neutral-You protect Demifiend from YHVH but also stop Lucifer from causing anymore trouble.

edit: I think Nocturne's ending divides are more like this:

• Law-Shijima, Yosuga, and Musubi
• Neutral-Freedom
• Chaos-Demon and True Demon

edited 3rd Aug '15 5:46:17 PM by Kostya

Lucifer doesn't cause trouble in Nocturne and it misses the point. Lucifer only reacts to what the Great Will does and ultimately lets his champion choose his own path. He gives him the choice and is fine with his option.

Freedom really leans towards Chaos however, since Kagutsuchi's Motive Rant is about how Chaos is bad and Freedom is Chaos. Even Hikawa pointed out the old world was overflowing with Freedom yet Yuko felt like it wasn't.

Also the Demon Ending isn't really chaotic. You basically suck and everyone ditches you the ending. Demi-Fiend is basically the Indecisive Neutral (Too weak to pick a side and too weak to form his own will). Not even Lucifer stays despite acting like he's happy with your actions. Even Kagutsuchi is so disgusted you don't get to fight him.

edited 3rd Aug '15 5:50:12 PM by OmegaRadiance

I heard somewhere that True Demon was added in the rerelease because the fanbase thought the "Chaos" ending in the original sucked.

If you follow the True Demon ending it's clear his actions aren't benevolent.

The normal Demon ending? Yeah, that one is shit. Although I think the Reason endings are pretty bad too. True Demon and Freedom are the only interesting ones in my opinion.

Lucifers actions are ultimately justified because of the pointless cycle of death and destruction. Either something changes or the endless cycle of death and destruction will continue without end just to enforce the Reasons.

And he doesn't force the Demi-Fiend to make the choice. He might manipulate him but him and the Lady in Black are honest about it later. He's pretty dubious in his actions.

And unlike the White, life still exists. Just not the life that depends on the Great Will (Which the Great Will had already culled for its agenda).

x2 Most likely bs. The original game wasn't complete most likely so they released the finished version later.

edited 3rd Aug '15 5:53:54 PM by OmegaRadiance

I fall firmly on the "Lucifer's full of it" side. He's really no better than YHVH, just a better pitchman.

@Freedom is Chaos: It's not a Law ending but it's also not really Chaos either. You don't really side with Lucifer at the end, you just don't side with Kagutsuchi. The neutral endings generally involve you objecting to both sides and trying to find some kind of compromise.

It's variable- Nocturne's Lucifer is significantly more reasonable than usual, whereas IV's Lucifer is basically Merkabah in a funhouse mirror- Distorted and warped and different on the surface, but ultimately still some asshole who's too blind to his own cause to see how anyone else could disagree.

Yeah, that's the thing- While the Great Will's aims are thwarted, however temporarily, beyond that Freedom doesn't particularly benefit Lucy.

edited 3rd Aug '15 5:59:54 PM by Pulse

He's reasonable but only because he's more interested in spiting YHVH in most of the endings. However, when you follow his plans fully you get True Demon which ends with you preparing to assault Heaven. That seems to be his true goal although he's fine with the other outcomes since he's a Chess Master.

I'm sorry but that varies from game to game.

• Lucifer in I and IV are dicks
• Well meaning and well intentioned in II (Including realizing his mistakes in a Visionary Item)
• Ambiguous but ultimately well intentioned in Nocturne, h
• Heroic in Devil Children
• Neutralish who helps humanity when they need it (Majin Tensei I-II)
• Pretty dickish in the main story for Raidou 2 but well intentioned in his goal for Raidou considering the goal of Raidou XL,
• Pretty much watching the story unfold for fun in Devil Survivor
• Well Intentioned in Last Bible (Including being an Optional Party Member in III)
• Spokesman for Chaos in Strange Journey and a observer otherwise

Imagine that the guy who leads the Chaos alignment changes from time to time.

Not sure if I should count Hazama's chapter since it's a cell phone game and pretty weird (He helps you on the Law route but is the Final Boss on the Chaos route).

x2 Lucifer seeks to spread Freedom. By choosing it, Demi-Fiend had effectively picked the same choice he had and chosen to spread it. So while it may not benefit him he's still utimately achieved what he wants.

edited 3rd Aug '15 6:09:31 PM by OmegaRadiance

I think saying he's well intentioned in Nocturne isn't accurate though. The True Demon ending is what he was going for. The others would just be nice consolation prizes if Demifiend didn't do what he wanted.

It's pretty much the only way to put an end to the Forever War between Light and Darkness plus their proxies Law/Chaos and end the cycle of death and recreation to suit the Great Wills agenda.

Now if everything died in that ending I'd consider it on the level of the White, but it doesn't and the demons are still alive.

And will probably devour each other in short order knowing them.

It still kills all the humans in the Amala universe though.

The humans are already dead because the Great Will killed them to kickstart the Conception.

And what was left eventually rejected their humanity to achieve their goals.

x2 They're going off to fight the final battle. So not likely.

edited 3rd Aug '15 6:16:44 PM by OmegaRadiance

I thought the ending implies the universes that aren't undergoing a Conception were destroyed too.

Actually it's left vague if it was just that universe or all of them. Even then it was likely the countless worlds (Likely meaning all of them) undergoing the Conception at that point since time/space have no meaning in the Vortex Worlds and the Conception process.

It might seem like a good idea but the nature of the series means it can't succeed, so you end up creating a whole lot of death and destruction for nothing. I still did it of course because it's the coolest ending.

The Reason endings are the ones that Lucy doesn't want to have happen, since each of them further the Great Will's plan of eliminating Free Will;

• Shijima is obvious about it; everyone and everything works for the greater good of the universe.
• Yosuba may seem like a Chaos ending, but if your life is reduced to "fight or flight" with only the fittest surviving, then you're an animal, not a person, and animals don't have Free Will.
• Musubi may seem like a Neutral ending, but since none of your choices or decisions in your personal world affect anyone or anything else, you can't be said to be exercising your Free Will. Choices must have consequence to have any meaning.

Freedom, on the other hand, would be recognized as a stop-gap measure; sure, this particular Conception has been thwarted, but now he's just got to do this same gig on all of the other ones. Worse, if what you say is true and all Conceptions throughout all of time happen "at once" thanks to the timelessness of Conception Space, then it means that Lucifer had picked that one world specifically as one of, if not the, last hope to break the cycle, probably because Conception was early and it was one of the few to have people to work with.

Demon is more of a true Chaos ending; the Demi-fiend is the strongest Demon but was too Human to make a decision; so now everyone lives in the demon free-for-all. If the Demi-fiend doesn't want to get gacked, and if he wants to help the Mannequins, he's going to have to step up and force the other demons in line with his strength.

True Demon, on the other hand, doesn't really fit the Law/Neutral/Chaos theme, but is more of a The End ending; either this works and the cycle is broken or this fails and The Great Will just goes back to doing what it was doing from scratch. Countless people died in the True Demon ending, but beyond countless people died on the path leading up to it. True Demon is it. It's Endgame. The Final Countdown. Curtain Falls. Fade to Black.

Lucifer isn't easy to pin down due to having different moralities in the games he appears in.

He's been "Social Darwinist Asshat" more often than not, though- I, Strange Journey and IV all have him more or less there, and while he's more sympathetic thanks to unusual circumstances in II, Nocturne and Raidou Vs. King Abaddon he's still shady.

actually lucy doesnt seem to mind you going for the reason endings and honestly, he wins in every ending, just in different ways.

true demon his wins the obvious way,

in the freedom ending he's found another strong willed ally who is regardless of his own will, opposed to god

in the reason endings and to a a lesser extent the demon ending, he wins because even though you chose a reason you still proved his product worked.

edited 4th Aug '15 8:41:43 AM by Tarsen