Avatar (James Cameron film)

"We cannot match the strength of wolves. We cannot hear a grasshopper alight five meters away in a jungle. We cannot walk on branches without slipping and falling. We cannot interface with animals to make them tolerate us. We do not have neural links to a planetary deity to receive instructions on how to thrive in a hostile environment."

"We are frail in body, not mind or soul. We are not weak because we fight in armor. We are not cowardly because we strike our enemies from afar. We are not evil because we harness the power of destruction. It is merely equalization. We are somewhere in the middle of all the life on our planet, and every one of them has and is trying to kill us."

"See this hammer? This is a tool, a weapon, and a means. With this hammer, we battled the world's greatest terrors and won. With this hammer, we built villages, towns, cities, metropolises, civilizations. With this hammer, we harnessed fire, steel, and lightning to our bidding. We constructed machines, vehicles, and titans of iron to tame the wilderness. We fought our way into our place in the world. We did all this; to forge a safer place for our children. If there is a better way, we did not receive any messages."

"And do not talk to me of your 'moral integrity'. I have seen rage, jealousy, religious indignation, lust, apathy, and failure to forgive amongst you. There is nothing wrong with our nature that you do not have."

"In the end? You are no better, Na'vi."

Just a rant I'd give to a Na'vi if he ever told me how weak and wicked we are.

An useless name, a forsaken connection.

*claps*

Thank you for reminding us how great we are.

"Wait, it's IV. Of course they are. They'd make IV for Dreamcast." - Enlong, on yet another FFIV remake

Personally I would of shot it in the face with my bolter for being xenoscum but props.

Over on Aint It Cool News, they have a short interview between Copernicus (the guy who wrote the "Science of Avatar" article for that site) and James Cameron.

Turns out, Cameron knows his stuff; they were geeking out about dark matter. Cameron says that he ran the whole floating mountains thing past a scientist friend, and it would determine that a magnetic field strong enough to do that would rip the hemoglobin from your blood. Ouch. So he gets that he made some scientific sacrifices for the story.

Also, he does hint that there's an in-universe reason that the Na'vi are humanoid and human-like. I'm going to go with Pandora's CPU detecting earth transmissions and directing the evolution of beings that can communicate with us.

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - E. Gary Gygax

I am almost certain that magnetic fields don't work like that. They would, however, cause problems for all those large, metallic aircraft flying in and out of them constantly.

I will keep my soul in a place out of sight, Far off, where the pulse of it is not heard.

Convergent evolution would help to explain why Humans and Na'vi have some similarities. It helps that Pandora is sufficiently earthlike, so it’s not unreasonable the Na’vi would develop similar traits to humans.

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.

In theory, some of the plot holes in this movie could be explained in the sequel. Although I would still consider it against the movie's credit that no one so much as asks "why are the Na'vi more like humans than they are the wildlife on their own planet?"

See you in the discussion pages.

Apathy Killed the Cat?

The Philosopher-King Paradox

"And that is your weakness. Not only are you blind and deaf to the voice of the world, you rejoice in your ignorance. You actually believe your handicap is something to be proud of, instead of something to be pitied."

Sorry, but I have a gag reflex against Humanity Is Superior speeches.

—R.J.

edited 9th Feb '10 9:21:26 PM by rjung

Awright, xenophobic banter!

"Spare us your pity, alien. You gush about your connection with nature, your primal wisdom, but what has it brought you?

Where are your marvels of engineering? Your voyages of discovery? Your great insight into the nature of the universe? Even at our basest, when we dressed as you do, dwelt as you do, hunted as you do, lived as you do, we did more than merely survive. We built wonders. We made great journeys. We forged epics. You have not.

You speak so proudly of the plugs dangling from your skulls, little realizing that they are but strings and you puppets. What little you have accomplished you attribute to the wisdom of your goddess, who is nothing but the voices of your dead echoing for all eternity. She moors you to the past, serving as a leash that keeps you as little better than apes, sad parodies of civilization that lack that special spark to become something more.

We have come to your world in search of resources. Whether your actions drive us back or we take what we want and move on, the outcome is the same. We will depart from your wretched planet, leaving you behind. And in a thousand years, you will not have changed from this contact with another world. You will remain in your trees, hunting your prey, communing with your goddess, until your sun burns out and your world dies.

And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us."

...Or something like that, which basically amounts to a more wordy rephrasing of Colonel SlaughterAwesomeFace's "savages" insult.

Current earworm: "Awe of the Unknown"

Are we all going to do this? 'cause that would be fun.

Besides, I didn't say that we were superior, I just said that we were the same. The end of the last line should have been;
"In the end? You are no better, Na'vi. And we are no worse."

An useless name, a forsaken connection.

^^ Spoken like a true servant of the Emperor.

"Wait, it's IV. Of course they are. They'd make IV for Dreamcast." - Enlong, on yet another FFIV remake

Don't know how much longer I'll keep this up, but I'll bounce it once more just for the creative writing exercise (and the lulz). Seems a bit odd to be playing a Na'vi when I thought the film was rather meh, though.

"Once again, you wallow in your ignorance. You talk of your machines and monuments as great and wondrous things, when they are nothing more than lumps of sand that will soon be washed away by the tides of time. And you actually boast about such works, as if raping the earth and soiling the air and fouling the water are achievements! Your homeworld is choking itself to death as we speak, and still you dare to hold yourself as something to aspire to...

"And that is how you fill your days, wallowing in ignorance and calling it civilization. Always alone in your heads, always distrustful and afraid, planning schemes and waging war to lash out at the pain in your souls. And after a scant sixty or eighty years you die, screaming in denial as you go, in dread realization that nothing about your true self will remain. You cannot even recall your own father's father's father's father, nor do you care.

"Then you talk about 'insights' to one who is in tune with the world itself. Each Na'vi who ever lived, who ever will live, remains on, forever nurtured and loved as part of Eywa. When she speaks to us, it is not simply a voice inside our heads, but the collective wisdom of a million million minds, with a wisdom and insight you cannot begin to comprehend. You pray to your gods and interpret every anomaly as a response; Eywa provides for our needs in ways far beyond your myths, and if need be, the planet itself will bend to protect us all. Such is the way of the Na'vi, joined in a love and intimacy that you can never begin to approach.

"So your souls cry out in loneliness, and you destroy your world — and all you touch — in response. A situation to be pitied, indeed."

—R.J.

Can't you just Exterminatus the planet with a good 'ol Virus Bomb and get it over with?

We can all learn something from the Legend of Zelda and it's triforce, Power is nothing without the courage and wisdom to make use of it...

Depends on how sophisticated Pandora's abilities are. IIRC, the original treatment for the movie (back when it was "Project 880") had the Pandoran biosphere able to produce defenses for all human diseases — which was the MacGuffin for the movie, since the planet had a natural cure for the common cold. Similarly, the original reason why Pandora was so dangerous was because the planet was sending various nasty beasties to repel the human invaders.

Maybe a Virus Bomb would sicken the Na'vi for a few minutes, and then the Pandoran plants start producing an insta-cure which counteracts the effects. Heck, the "Project 880" treatment even ends with the humans kicked off-planet, along with a threat that if the humans return, Pandora will produce a virulently lethal anti-human virus, and send it with the humans returning to Earth.

—R.J.

edited 10th Feb '10 9:59:26 AM by rjung

Yeah, but this didn't feel like a movie about parity and equality, y'know? So I decided to just go for broke.

The trick is to pronounce "alien" like an epithet.

It'd really be safer just to ignite the atmosphere and burn off the offending life-forms. I'd go with something heavier, but that'd risk damaging the shiny rocks.

But perhaps something more subtle would work? Without the planetary CPU as a coordinator, the movie showed that the Na'vi don't really stand a chance against determined humans. If you could somehow disrupt it, either with bio-hacking or a powerful EMP spike or whatever, you wouldn't need to take stronger steps.

Of course, this would basically amount to blowing up the Na'vi afterlife and killing their goddess. You Can Hear the Cry of the Planet, indeed.

Now that would have been a better premise than a search for unobtainium profits - a goal that the audience can be sympathetic to. Guess Cameron didn't want any ambiguity over which side the viewers should support, so he dropped the "cure all diseases" angle for "space oil."

I'm trying to figure out which headquarters defense scenario the banter thus far supports. I think what we've got would fit the unsuccessful defense of Hell's Gate more than a battle for Hometree, just because rjung is making the better argument. I'm past logic and operating purely on vitriol and contempt.

"Tides of time?! Such words from a stagnant and blinkered race? Even if our monuments are worn away by the eons, we still will have built them. Even after our home is dust, we still will survive.

Every human life spent pushes us forward, whether immeasurably or in great leaps. Our 'loneliness', our fraternal struggles only make us stronger. We remember and honor our past, but are not chained to it.

While you, alien, are eternally bound to the same stretch of history, preening at your own simplicity because you cannot grow into something more. You boast that your planet protects you. I say you are coddled, pampered by an indulgent parent. Perhaps that is why your Eywa will not let you advance? Does your smothering "mother" refuse to let her children grow? Would she be lonely if you left her, and therefore grasps you tightly to her bosom, keeping you ignorant and childish?

But enough useless speculation. You are proud of your natural wisdom, so you will appreciate this simple fact - the strong survive. So come, alien, and test your strength against ours!"

(cue battle sequence)

It was really hard not to say "show me what passes for fury amongst your misbegotten kind!"

Current earworm: "Awe of the Unknown"

Someone explain to me where a gun nut/fetishist like James Cameron gets off criticizing the Hell out of the military.

I don't get it. Unless he's one of those survivalist types that thinks the rest of the country is against them.

Me? I...Think he's just lost it.

And that Project 880 sounds MUCH cooler.

Liking guns doesn't correlate perfectly to anything other than liking guns, politics-wise.

I will keep my soul in a place out of sight, Far off, where the pulse of it is not heard.

...*sound of gears turning*...

...Duly noted. <_<

Technically, though, Avatar isn't anti-military as much as it's anti-corporatist and anti-mercenary. The beginning of the movie specifically says the corporation has more power than the world's governments, and the soldiers are hired guns. Much like Halliburton and Blackwater Xe...

—R.J.

I'm not talking about the uber-immune original Na'vi. I'm talking about the blue pseudo-furry tree-dwellers we got in the end movie.

Anyway...not to turn this into a Goku Vs. Superman style stupid debate, but Warhammer 40k Virus bombs don't really work the way you're probably thinking. It's a virus that immediately kills and starts breaking down the victim's physical structure into a volatile gas. Death and complete breakdown of the victims happens in under a minute for almost all known species, even for extremely hardy species like Orcs. So even if it didn't kill the Na'vi, it would kill and break down the wildlife, trees, ect. Which is important for this next part...

After the initial, biological strike, the air is saturated with volatile, explosive gasses. The gasses are then ignited, causing a MASSIVE explosion that levels almost anything in the area flat and leaves enough searing heat behind to kill anything that somehow survives. Several virus bombs going off simultaneously will destroy all life on the planet. Hence "Extermanatis"

Even fully-armored Space Marines (The Warhammer 40k ones with powered armor, steel-plated bones, and genetically engineered super-organs, not James Cameron's ones...) in fortified, underground bunkers haven't been able to withstand a virus bomb...

Seeing something like that go off on Pandora, besides making all the Na'vi fanboys/fangirls literally cry, would be the single greatest "Holy shit" moment ever.

We can all learn something from the Legend of Zelda and it's triforce, Power is nothing without the courage and wisdom to make use of it...

Does humanity in Avatar have that level of technology, though? And if not, what's to stop the Warhammer guys from doing the same to us/them?

I mean, next thing you know we'll be pulling "Death Star vs. Pandora" here...

—R.J.

edited 10th Feb '10 2:14:26 PM by rjung

Unless Pandora can somehow pull off X-Wings piloted by Jedis...or Lando Calrissian and a Millenium Falcon, I don't see Pandora winning that one...

We can all learn something from the Legend of Zelda and it's triforce, Power is nothing without the courage and wisdom to make use of it...

Volcanic geysers shooting lava thousands of feet into the air? I dunno.

—R.J.

It summons a Space Whale to nom the Death Star, obviously. Which would probably render the planet resistant to any form of orbital bombardment... maybe some sort of interstellar torpedo or mass driver...

Current earworm: "Awe of the Unknown"