Fan-Fiction and Trope Pages

Also Also: Yes. The Namespace list should be updated appropriately.

If we would prefer our work to stay in Troper Works, is there anything we can do or do we just have to accept this?

Ask Eddie nicely to allow that namespace to remain?

You can much get the same effect if you stick a banner on the page saying 'Self-advertisment, written by the troper,' or similar.

OK. Can we pretty please with sprinkles and Sugar Wiki on top still keep Troper Works around so those of us who prefer it can keep their works there? They don't have to stay there if the troper so desired, just for those of us who prefer it. Please?

Just out of curiosity, why would a person want that, keeping the work in Troper Works?

I'll lay aside the queasy feeling I get from thinking some people who make works may not be tropers.

Because I'd prefer people to know right off the bat that I wrote the article, therefore am biased, and that the whole thing is kind of an advertisement of sorts? Also, putting it in "Literature" is kind of misleading too, since it's only found on the web. In a messy form that's seen a couple of revisions in places since it was posted.

I would support separating dead tree literature from online literature, if only to help prevent namespace collisions.

I just have one little (very minor) concern with this:

I've noticed that it was mainly the Original Works that have been moved to their proper namespace. I have no problem with that, but I was just wondering whether it means that the Fan Works will stay at the Troper Works namespace or they'll all be moved to the Fan Fic namespace once the Original Works have been sorted out.

Hmm. So, the big distinction is 'author-made article.'

Here's a problem with that. Once the article is posted, no matter who posts it, it goes under the control of the wiki editors. The article doesn't 'belong' to the author. This is the way we have to make sure that it isn't in advertisement-speak.

The point I'm making is that an author is an author. Whether they are a regular wiki contributor or not isn't really anything except an interesting bit of trivia.

edited to add: Yes, Fan Fic should be moved to Fan Fic.

edited 18th Aug '10 5:25:59 PM by FastEddie

The fan fics are getting moved last. Web Fiction might be a good name space for stories found only in the internet but aren't fan fiction. They are a bit different from dead tree literature.

I like Web Fiction as a distinct group within Web Original. Not sure it should be a namespace. Maybe it should.

Edited to add one more point for Freezair. The article won't be clearly biased. The other editors will see to that.

edited 18th Aug '10 5:29:07 PM by FastEddie

Unless there's some distinction I'm not aware of, I thought Web Original and Web Fiction are supposed to be one and the same.

Web Original tends to cover a broader range of genres besides writing, while Web Fiction seems to generally mean, "A novel but Internety."

Also, from what I've seen, Troper Work pages are rarely edited by anyone but the author and maybe a close friend or two. Wiki Magic rarely works on them because they mostly end up as author vanity pages regardless.

edited 18th Aug '10 5:34:55 PM by FreezairForALimitedTime

The fix for that is to not ghetto-ize them to start with, I think.

If a description for a work gets posted here, it should be liable for the same level of scrutiny as anything else. No "I'm just an amateur!" weak sauce.

edited 18th Aug '10 5:40:01 PM by FastEddie

At least the ghetto's honest. :P And "amateur" does merit a different level of scrutiny, I think, since an amateur may not be trained in their craft (criticism needs to take into account that lack of knowledge, and treat it as a thing to be learned and not a punishable oversight), may just be doing it for fun (doesn't care about criticism), doesn't have the same resources as a professional (can't necessarily "polish" a work), and the lack of proper publishing all take a part in it.

edited 18th Aug '10 5:43:56 PM by FreezairForALimitedTime

Web Original tends to cover a broader range of genres besides writing, while Web Fiction seems to generally mean, "A novel but Internety."

Ah, that makes it much clearer. With this in mind, I wouldn't be against making a Web Fiction namespace.

Web Original tends to be more multimedia.

From what I've seen Web Original tends to be a catch-all miscellaneous category for "Things on the internet that didn't used to exist and so lack catchy names".

And yeah, I only went through Original Works and a few other categories because FE was talking about moving everything left to the Fanfic namespace.

Okay. So, no objections if I move my work over to that namespace now?

Nope. Go for it.

And... done. One more question: can I still use the Troper Works page as a redirect for the Fanfics namespace page?

Makes sense. This is essentially a rename, and that's what we do in most rename cases.  ^*

I was just wondering whether it means that the Fan Works will stay at the Troper Works namespace or they'll all be moved to the Fan Fic namespace once the Original Works have been sorted out.

Look back a page, and you'll see I'm going through the fanworks, checking if they are fanfics, before we move them. Most of them are, but not all. For some of them, I'm not sure if we've currently got any namespace they fit in.

Yesterday I started going through the Fanworks section of Troperworks, checking for non-fanfics, and found a few.

That leaves the ones under Fanworks. I'll take a look, and see if there are any that shouldn't go in Fanfic. Once the remainder have been moved to that namespace, I'll also add them to the fanfic index. Any volunteers to put the other moved pages on the appropriate indexes?

Later:

Unpublished

• After The Fact Mega Man Chronicles
• Raharigan Series
  • Not a fanfic, either. Looks like rpg write up.
• Elemental Dawn and Elemental Doom
  • Two more campaign write ups, from same group, one of them not started yet.

Do we want unpublished works on all the same index as published ones? They go on the troper works index, obviously, but do they go on any others?

Other:

• Atlanta Nights (not the book itself, but a Dramatic Reading of it right nights here)
  • Have we got anywhere for dramatic readings?
• # BChat
  • # BChat Character Sheet
  • Roleplaying chat, in no particular continuity. Web original? Also, the character sheet isn't correctly linked to the page proper.
• Benders And Brawlers
  • Webcomic, Darths And Droids style, for A:TLA.
• The Classic Doctor Who Twitter Blog
  • Classic episodes, recapped over twitter - Web original?
• Ever Shadow Genesis
  • No indication what it's a fanfic of, if anything, or if it's been published anywhere

The Anarchy Verse is being used by the writers of that verse to discuss their collaboration, on the main page. At a minimum, that probably belongs on the discussion page.

Now, the rest of the problem cases.

Unpublished

• # fredrin no Tanoshimi no Jikan
• Seventeen
  • Author's drafts apparently available on request, but only in Russian
• Unnamed Martial Arts Harem Comedy Pitch

Note, the problem with unpublished works is that no one except the authors can look at the actual work, and see what tropes are there, making it difficult for wiki magic to take effect.

Other:

• Troper Works/Fiveminute.net
  • Abridged retellings of show episodes, from multiple series, with lots of fourth wall breaking. Web Original?
• Haven Quest
  • TV Tropes forum game - Web original?
• A Dramatic Reading of My Inner Life, the infamously awful Zelda fanfic
  • Which Dramatic Reading it is isn't specified, and where do they go anyway?
• Tip Of The Iceberg
  • Sprite Web Comic, not clear if it's a fanfic of anything in particular

Mind Tricks is a wrestling fanfic. The Fan Fics page doesn't have a category for that. However, it does have a couple of entries under other fanworks, where we might be able to put some of the problem cases.