Needs Cleaning Up: Humans Are Bastards

Either way, we need to start working out a way to take care of incorrect examples on the page and clean up wicks.

Now, it's one thing to say we can outright delete them, but for the most part, we should establish some kind of organized system for which bad examples could be better fitted as another trope.

What's the argument against renaming? That much misuse overshadows the trope's popularity, especially if it's implanting an incorrect conception of the trope.

That's what I wanted to know.

From what I can tell, the opposition seems predicated on creating a "humans are bastards in general" trope, whether under Humans Are Bastards or elsewhere, and I'm not sure that'll happen. What other reasons they have beyond that, I have no idea.

Like I said, it may be just like Xanatos Gambit where no one cares about the misuse, and we just give up and let it be misused everywhere because there's too much opposition to change the name.

Like I said, it may be just like Xanatos Gambit where no one cares about the misuse, and we just give up and let it be misused everywhere because there's too much opposition to change the name.

Are my posts showing up when other people read this thread? Again, regardless of whether or not we change the trope's name, we still need to come up with a way to go through the wicks and clean up any misuse.

Even if we clean up the wicks, I'm certain the misused ones will just sprout up again.

As the crowners says 4000 people were brought here by the misunderstanding of how to trope works. Maybe the definition needs to change not the examples.

^Examples are never used to define a trope, and trope descriptions do not change to fit the examples, regardless of how much a trope may be misused.

edited 21st Dec '10 11:15:02 AM by SeanMurrayI

If examples, use and name are used consistently but the trope definition is different, the best action is generally a trope transplant.

What's to "transplant"? People Being Jerks isn't very tropable, and the Aesop you keep wanting to trope has nothing to do with anyone being a jerk or this page.

edited 21st Dec '10 11:45:40 AM by SeanMurrayI

Are my posts showing up when other people read this thread? Again, regardless of whether or not we change the trope's name, we still need to come up with a way to go through the wicks and clean up any misuse.

I have read them. I'm saying that all these down votes seems to mean that no one cares that there's misuse, and/or that there's a significant number of people who think People Are Jerks is tropeable.

I don't know how we could reach either one of those conclusions from the crowner.

The crowner was just to reach a decision on whether the trope should be renamed because of its misuse or keep the name in spite of it, and a sound argument could be made in either direction. Voting against a rename isn't a sign of not caring about how the trope is incorrectly used; until someone voting against a rename actually voices their full opinion, we can only take it as a sign of people really liking the current name and nothing more.

Regardless, we need to move on to cleaning up the misused and misattributed wicks. I'd volunteer to clean up examples on the main page first, but would anyone want to start going through and sorting out bad wicks?

edited 21st Dec '10 4:50:43 PM by SeanMurrayI

Right, sorry, I forgot to mention the possibility that people are ignoring the misuse; I'd said it before in past posts.

Still, the misuse is pretty prevalent, and pretty clear. It's been demonstrated over and over again on this thread. If people acknowledge that, and know that it's the #1 reason to rename, and are still voting it down, I think my possibilities are pretty darn strong.

ETA: Arguably, wouldn't cleaning up the wicks now assume that you win the "People Being Jerks isn't tropable" debate? :)

edited 21st Dec '10 4:54:17 PM by Leaper

So... it's been over two weeks, and I was just reminded of this conversation by a pothole that misused this trope name... Guess how it misused it? :)

So now what?

Whatever we do decide to do with it, the results of the single prop crowner to rename are clearly not supportive of renaming (11 for, 16 against, -5).

edited 6th Jan '11 7:22:45 AM by MoCellMan

Even if the reasoning has me completely stumped.

So, do we ignore the completely rampant misuse or redefine the trope to something that we're not agreed is tropeable?

^We don't do either of those things. The crowner was just to reach a decision on whether or not we should rename the trope and nothing more. We still have to clean up misuse.

edited 6th Jan '11 3:50:54 PM by SeanMurrayI

Ah, well, I considered that course of action "ignoring the misuse" because it does nothing to fix the core problem that causes the misuse. Thus, I assume we'll be back here in a few months again complaining about the regrowing misuse.

Unless we were to designate a Humans Are Bastards custodian of some sort to watch over the entire wiki until the end of time. :)

To be fair, my initial complaint about the Humans Are Bastards page (apart from misuse) was about the extremely unwieldy trope description, which has since been cleared up.

Once misuse is cleaned up on the page and among the wicks, I wouldn't mind filling in as a Wiki Curator for the page to keep it in focus; I'm already currently filling that role for Humans Are Morons, anyway.

edited 6th Jan '11 4:14:03 PM by SeanMurrayI

Good luck finding someone to do that, since Humans Are Bastards.

edited 6th Jan '11 4:13:00 PM by MoCellMan

^Getting rid of misattributed examples and wicks is the easy part that anybody can do; refiling them under a different, more appropriate trope article is where it gets difficult (but where things get really important if we want to do a cleanup right).

All I'll ask for is a helping hand in either of those two divisions. If no one wants to help; I have no qualms with carrying out the task myself before decided to just delete all the bad ones and watch the page for new wicks like a hawk.

This thread expired after 60 days of inactivity.

OK, since this obviously isn't going to get renamed (and the banner disappeared thanks to the bot's wildness in January), how's the wick and example cleanup going? Anybody volunteering to police future wicks?

edited 22nd Mar '11 10:02:56 PM by Leaper

I suggest creating a Special Projects thread for it like the one for Nerds Are Sexy. It's a mess out there.

I can help cleaning up.

Is the policy to just delete examples that don't mention other sentient species? (So I guess that, for example, Elfen Lied shouldn't go since it has sentient androids, but Gundam should, since [as far as I'm aware] it doesn't feature any non-human sentients.)

I've cut the inappropriate examples in the animé/manga section.

EDIT: While at the subject, the page quote is also not an example. It just says "humanity sucks", not "humans are evil compared to other sentients".

edited 23rd Mar '11 6:05:54 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

I'll back up that none of the Gundam series I have seen features aliens except Gundam00 movie.