Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

New movie preview out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8emDqgw3yTU

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-07-01/eleven-arts-to-screen-a-silent-voice-nanoha-reflection-films-in-u.s-theaters-in-october/.118311

Yeah, I saw that a while ago. Unfortunately, I have no idea where it's airing in the US, or where I could find out. I'm also not sure if they're planning on showing it raw or subbed — I'm hoping that the delay of a couple months means they're going to sub it, but who the hell knows?

In other news, I read through Innocent recently, which was a lot of fun. Not at all serious and bounces from plotline to plotline without ever really sinking its teeth into any of them, but it's basically an excuse for cuteness, in-jokes, and cute in-jokes.

Plus it manages to make Jail of all people one of the funniest people in the manga, which is an accomplishment all by itself.

Something else I found surprising is that the most recently translated chapter of Vivid actually sets up a lot of the stuff that was confusing about the start of Vivid Strike.

Title for the forth movie revealed: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-07-22/magical-girl-lyrical-nanoha-detonation-anime-film-slated-for-2018/.119185

"Detonation" is a wholly appropriate title for a Nanoha movie.

Hmm... I wonder if the fourth Nanoha movie being called Detonation is meant to be yet another Wild Arms Shout-Out from Tsuzuki (Specifically to ''Wild ARMs the Fourth Detonator")?

edited 22nd Jul '17 5:46:03 PM by Servbot

So I rewatched A's recently, first the TV version then the movie. My thoughts in no particular order:

• The timeline of A's is both much shorter and much easier to follow than the original series. The first fight is on December 2nd and the last is December 24th. Handy timestamps are handy.
• As opposed to the original series having a more Monster of the Week approach, there are only four fight scenes in the entirety of A's. The first is when Vita ambushes Nanoha, the second is the rematch after Raising Heart and Bardiche are upgraded with the cartridge system, the third is a divide-and-conquer fight where Nanoha and Fate tackle Vita and Signum separately (with Arf running interference on Zaf for Fate's benefit), and the fourth is the final battle against the Book of Darkness.
• In the TV version, Team TSAB actually gives a much better showing than I remember. They only lose after being outnumbered and/or ambushed. The only time they outright lose a straight one-on-one fight is when Vita attacks Nanoha in the first episode. Every other fight ends when someone gets ambushed (the first one when a still-wounded Nanoha gets ambushed by Shamal while charging a Starlight Breaker, the second with Chrono getting ambushed by one of the Liese twins after catching Shamal dead to rights, the third with first Nanoha and then Fate getting ambushed by the Liese twins, and the last with Fate actually catching an invisible Liese twin... then getting ambushed by the second one).
• In the Movie, however, the Wolks do much better for themselves. In the first fight, Vita trashes Nanoha and then Signum trashes Fate. In the second, the Wolks are able to retreat in good order before Chrono and TSAB reinforcements arrive, rather than getting caught out and having to be rescued by the Liese twins. The third fight doesn't happen at all in the movie, and the fourth ends with the Book just absorbing the Wolks rather than the Liese twins defeating everyone and then absorbing the Wolks themselves.
• Speaking of ambushes, it's interesting to note that Chrono's preferred fighting style is exactly the same as the Liese twins. He drops in on an unaware opponent and ends the fight in a single stroke. He does this to Nanoha and Fate in his first appearance in the original series, he does it to Shamal in the second A's fight, and he does it to the Liese twins themselves in the fourth fight. This makes sense given that the Liese twins are the ones who taught him magic and combat, but it's still a neat parallel.
• The final battle doesn't actually make a whole lot of sense in the movie version because of the changes they make compared to the TV version. In the TV version, the Liese twins disguise themselves as Nanoha and Fate and then summon Hayate and force her to watch them absorbing the Wolks into the Book of Darkness. This completes the Book right when Hayate is really super pissed at Nanoha and Fate, so when the Book fully activates and the defense program takes over, it interprets this as "Master wants me to kill those two girls" (and it refuses to accept any countermanding orders, because once it's active it can't be reprogrammed). Meanwhile, Reinforce's access to the Book is locked out by the defense program, so she tries to keep Hayate (and later Fate) quiet and happy in comforting illusions while she waits for what she thinks is the inevitable end. But Nanoha manages to do enough damage to the defense program that it wakes up Hayate, who refuses to let Reinforce soothe her, and invokes her administrative rights on the Book to eject the defense program. That gives Rein control of the book again, allowing Hayate to fuse with Rein properly, and together the whole crew defeats the now-independent defense program.
• In the movie version, though, the Book appears to decide on its own to complete itself by absorbing the Wolks (why at that exact point in time, and not at any other point when the Book was close enough to completed that the Wolk's linker cores would've finished the job?), summoning Hayate itself, and then putting Rein in control once it activates. This is very explicit because Rein and the defense program (referred to as Nacht Wal in the movie) are depicted as separate entities in the movie version — Rein as the standard black-winged woman and Nacht Wal as a creepy ball of snakes. So Reinforce spends a while beating the shit out of Hayate's friends just for the hell of it apparently, before Nacht Wal begins to take over (and the winged lady starts to fuse with the snakeball) and blow things up indiscriminately. This seems to be a problem caused by the fact that the Liese twin subplot was dropped from the movie, but they still need a big climactic final battle.
• On the plus side for movie changes, in the TV version, the Book of Darkness first activates and spawns the Wolks on its own, with no external prompting, precisely at midnight on Hayate's 9th birthday. This seems far too convenient to be a coincidence but the significance of it is never explained. In the movie version, the book first activates in order to teleport Hayate out of the way when she's about to be hit by a truck, so at least it had a reason to act. In the TV version, she also seems to largely ignore the book in favor of hanging out with the Wolks (which makes sense, given that they're people rather than an inanimate object), while in the movie version she's apparently carrying the book around with her just because she likes it even before it spawns the Wolks for her — after that, it floats around to follow her around the house and she talks to it like a pet, which is cute. So points to the movie on that one.
• Something equally strange in both versions: the whole illusion thing with Reinforce sticking Fate in a Lotus-Eater Machine during the final battle. It's definitely a solid emotional punch, and it's relevant to Fate's character development of dealing with her conflicted feelings about Prescia, and the scene was great overall. It just seems really weird to put there, of all places in the story. Wouldn't it have made way more sense to see Hayate's pleasant illusion? It takes a big moment that should have been about Hayate and her relationship with Reinforce and turns it into something about Fate and her relationship with Prescia instead. Which, again, was still a good moment, but seems irrelevant to the situation.

Strikers is next on the rewatch menu! I'm looking forward to this — Strikers is longer and more complex than the original series or A's, and it doesn't have a compilation movie like those two, so it has more story to begin with and it's been longer since I've watched it, so I'm expecting to get more out of a rewatch.

edited 17th Aug '17 3:49:27 PM by NativeJovian

Vivid manga is ending in two chapters and will be replaced with Nanoha Reflection: the comics, which from the article that it's a collection of side stories based on the movie: https://web-ace.jp/compace/notice/53/

edited 8th Sep '17 2:21:32 PM by APN

There have been rumors for a while that Vivid was wrapping up soon, I guess now we know when "soon" is. I'm sort of meh on it, honestly — Vivid lost the plot ages ago. And I mean that literally; Vivid's biggest problem by far is that it couldn't decide what story it wanted to tell, so instead it's half-told about four stories before moving on to something else.

Still, we'll see what these new comics end up being. Something to look forward to, anyway!

That seems to be a problem with Nanoha in general nowadays.

Huh, I should probably read Vivid.

Been meaning to for ages but to be honest it just doesn't have that "hook" to drag me in.

TOS hooked me with the premise I'd seen mentioned on a few trope pages, INNOCENT got me of the humor inherent in a lighter and softer version of canon and Vivid Strike was interesting because it tried to be its own thing.

Vivid just kind of lacks something like that from what I've heard.

Yeah, Vivid definitely lacks a solid hook. It starts out as a sort of low-stakes rehash of TOS, with Vivio in Nanoha's role and Einhard in Fate's. Then it turns into a sports anime for a while (where the sport is magical girl combat). Then they start going into ancient Belkan backstory, about Olivie (the person Vivio is a clone of) et al. Then they spend a bunch of time in Space China Leuven, Rio's homeworld, which contributes little to the overall plot despite spending a lot of time on it and introducing a whole host of new characters there. Etc etc etc. It's worth reading if you're hankering for more Nanoha, but I would have a hard time recommending it to anyone who isn't already a fan.

Vivid Strike was a mixed bag. It was a fun little show, but in some ways it doesn't really feel like Nanoha. Unlike Vivid, where the earlier cast was around even if they weren't main characters anymore, in Vivid Strike no one pre-Vivid (except technically Vivio and Nove, but their characterization in Strikers was vastly different from Vivid) appears at all. Plus there's next to no actual magic. It's basically just a martial arts anime where the characters can punch through concrete for some reason. Plus there's some weird continuity shenanigans — like the fact that Vivid used a simulation system with its fights, where actual injury was blocked but the system tracked both HP damage and "status effect" damage that affected performance (including simulating the pain of those injuries), while Vivid Strike just has its competitors punching each other — causing real injuries, up to and including broken bones. That said, judging it on its own merits, I actually quite liked it; there were a handful of solid emotional moments and the overall story was satisfying. It helps to realize that Fuka, despite being the viewpoint character, is actually just a Supporting Protagonist, though — the real main character is Rinne.

Innocent I only read fairly recently, but it turned out to be a lot of fun. It's sort of interesting that it sets up legitimate plotlines from within its own canon and then mostly skips over them in favor of more silliness, but it works. The fact that they managed to turn Jail into a fantastic comic relief character is nothing short of amazing.

edited 9th Sep '17 3:32:50 AM by NativeJovian

In regards to the injuries and emulation thing, I think that just comes down to the martial arts league they're participating in during Strike having different rules and regulations than the one special tournament that they participate in during Vivid.

Anyone still looking for fics between this and Cross Ange? Well, here it is.

Perfectly matched.

Heh, I wonder if that's deliberate or not. The "backlit by flames" shot is common enough that I could see it going either way, really.

Other than that, anyone heard any news about the US release of Reflections? I can't find anything more recent than this summer, which said it was going to get some US showings this fall, but that was later delayed and I haven't seen any new dates. Reflection has been getting showings in various other countries and I haven't heard anything bad about it yet, though I haven't seen box office numbers or anything so I don't know how it's doing commercially.

Just in, the third chapter for my Lyrical Nanoha and Cross Ange fanfic is up. Link for the prologue is here.

Time for the two heroines to finally meet.

edited 13th Nov '17 6:43:51 PM by WiseMan23753

Is Vivid Strike a good starter show?

Because I tried to watch "Lyrical" and damn I couldn't stand the fucking paedo-bait. Like, that Transformation Sequence was beyond the pale. When did they stop doing that?

Vivid Strike is an.......odd place to start.

The show tries to mention as little about other entries as possible, and the style is very different from other entries. Its also not the best entry.

What I'd recommend is start with the film version of season 1 and then watch season 2 (A's).

The film version of season 1 has a bit more dense fanservice, but much less overall since the total runtime is way shorter. The actual second season is the best the franchise has ever been, and honestly doesn't really have that much fanservice (outside of the easily skipped transformation sequences).

Vivid Strike is largely unrelated to the rest of the franchise. The original series, A's, and Strikers are the "main" continuity (focusing on Nanoha and friends), Vivid is a sort of semi-spinoff focusing on a largely new cast of characters but with some of the original cast still around, and Vivid Strike is a spinoff of that where the original cast is entirely missing and only the Vivid cast (plus several new characters) appear. Vivid Strike also features a different style of fighting than the rest of the franchise does — instead of mecha-style combat done with magical girls, Vivid Strike is more a MMA sports anime where the competitors are all young girls who can punch through reinforced concrete for some reason (a trend that started with Vivid, but Vivid Strike goes whole hog on it). So while it's a decent show on its own, I wouldn't really say Vivid Strike is a good introduction to the franchise at large

The bad news about the fanservice is that it's pretty much inescapable. The good news is that it's largely relegated to the transformation sequences, as you mention. (Well, the original series does also have a Hot Springs Episode, but the fanservice-focus there is on the adult characters rather than Nanoha and friends.) The fanservice is undoubtedly my least favorite part of the franchise, but it's sadly sort of the price of entry. At least the transformation sequences only show up a handful of times per series, rather than being a Once an Episode thing.

If you're looking to get started on the franchise, I'd suggest watching the first movie (appropriately named "Nanoha The Movie 1st" in classic Engrish). It's a Compilation Movie of the original series, completely reanimated from scratch — which is good, because the animation in the original series is infamously inconsistent and janky. Skip the transformation sequences (which are even longer and creepier than in the series — yay) and you'll avoid the fanservice issues.

edited 16th Nov '17 7:21:38 AM by NativeJovian

Yeah, I agree.

The first movie is a good starting point.

But as Jovian said, the two transformation sequences are super skeevy. But aside from that its fine.

IMO if you can't stand the fan-service in TOS, then regular Vivid I would advise skipping for Strike once you've watched the main series.

edited 17th Nov '17 8:26:50 PM by 32ndfreeze

...The full sequence generally only gets wheeled out once for each character.

Reflections to air in US theaters starting February 9th. It'll be interesting to see if it's showing anywhere near me.

One warning about the trailer in that article: naked lolis (Barbie Doll Anatomy, thankfully) within five seconds of the start. Ugh, come on, is that really what you decided was best to put front and center first thing? Seriously, guys.

Nanoha Detonation preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFBpxF7QvG0

Also Reflection blu-rays coming out on April 11th: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTsTgvu4NsI