Sucker Punch

a) I suffered immense cognitive dissonance watching this movie (re: sexy girls, and men objectifying them etc). I'm guessing this was something Snyder intended. Found it annoying, and made it hard for me to get into the movie as a visceral experience.

b) The action sequences were mostly good, but occasionally went overboard into to Narmy territory. Great soundtrack though.

c) Mostly I was confused as to what kind of movie I was watching. It never just picked me up and took me along for the ride, instead I was constantly re-assessing the movie as I watched it, which made me detached from the characters. The Mind Screw elements felt very clumsy.

The disparate elements of the movie never came together and had the synergy to be greater than the sum of the whole- in fact it was the opposite, where they detracted from each other. Would love to see Snyder make an actual action-fantasy or psychological thriller instead of weird mishmash of both.

I've just seen the movie. It was perfect, IMHO. It was both subtle and anvilicious at the same time. The caracters were both archetypal and threedimensional. The action scenes were amazing in their exteme tropetasticness. The music was anachronistic as hell and incredibly awesome.

And yes. Yes indeed. It is a Live Action Anime. Like Scott Pilgrim. Except a lot better. The Foregone Conclusion was evident from the start, I didn't feel suckerpunched at all. The plan was dumb as all fuck, and I was amazed as to how they didn't see it.

The only problem I see with this movie is that it throws viewers who are not Genre Savvy enough into so much of a loop they just can't follow. It requires a lot of trope culture to properly navigate.

^You're not supposed to be "taken for the ride", I think this movie is clearly made for a cold, Pass the Popcorn style, detached enjoyment. I for one never cared for the characters, I was just curious as to what they'd do and the consequences thereof.

And I've seen lots of posts about how the movie is exploitative because of the fanservicy outfits. If you're as used to anime Fanservice as I am, you barely notice it. It's just... notmal, you know. Like, part of the background, not something to notice. That the setting drew our attention to it and made it so disturbing was, I think, kind of the point. But, had sydner actually wanted it to be arousing, he'd have given, y'know, actual fanserive-in-action. Like, letting us see one of those dances, or having rocket and her friend kiss, or showing them undressing, or whatever. Instead, well, it was just their working outfit.

edited 17th Sep '11 7:03:35 AM by JesusSaves

Just watched it.

If it stuck to either an action only AMV, or a movie about an escape from a jailbait brothel and only that, this would have been so much better. It fails even as a popcorn flick.

What Michael Bay is to explosions Zack Snyder is to slow-mo. Ugh.

edited 3rd Dec '11 2:21:30 PM by Schitzo

Oh noes this movie was just like The Lord of Rings to me.

I didnt understood anything AT ALL, got too bored and I couldt even finish it. lol...

My opinion is already on page 13...but the fan service complaints are fairly ridiculous. The girls were not dressing slutty for the fans, they were not objectified by the camera and given the plot of the movie they're clothing and routines were unrealistically conservative. If someone really wanted to do an explicit stripper-brothel-medical horror-hole in the wall, this would be NC 17...or at least more akin to Blood Diamond than an action flick. The fight scenes were the only fan service that was truly exploited and that was the film's draw so what's the issue?

If you want to complain about unnecessary fan service watch The Wrestler...those women were middle aged, they don't count? Is it because that was an Oscar Bait film that it has a free pass?

edited 9th Dec '11 11:23:11 AM by Cider

Even the "fanservice" here was boring.

Tensionless fights.

Poorly handwaved fight sequences.

In fact, you know what? Do me a favor. Put on the DVD commentary and take a drink for every time the words "symbolic" or "metaphor" is used. You will die, horribly.

"The girls were dressing slutty for the fans, they were not objectified by the camera"

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. You agree that there was intentional objectification but somehow this has nothing to do with the way it was filmed...?

I meant to put a not there. It's been edited. The point was the movie was titillation was not the movies selling point, the action scenes were. As far as stripper outfits go, they were pretty tame, despite that they logically should not have been.

I saw it months ago, actually. It wasn't anywhere near as bad as I feared it would be. I wouldn't say it was deep or thought-provoking, but not every movie needs to be those things to be entertaining.

The visuals were awesome and the dream sequences were very much like a video game, actually. Perhaps Snyder should look into adapting one of those someday. I liked how the ending was bittersweet.

Thread hopping in to say I adore this movie. I appreciate the finger pointed at both the audience and the villians at the same time. I can see why it would be hard for some people to catch what Snyder is trying to say. I also acknowledge he's trying to deliver a very careful message and walk a very hard line. It's not perfect, but it's better than most. And in a world where 1 of 4 women has experienced some form of mental or physical abuse, 1 and 6 have been the victim of sexual violence, I'm glad someone is trying to breach the subject.

Breach what subject? All "controversial" subjects have all been "breached" by more accessible films.

I'm not saying this was a bad movie, but if this movie did try to get a point across, it failed horribly.

Reread my last line again.

All messages have been said before. But Snyder is targeting a specfic audience that is lagging in the women's respect and rights department: comic/video game/action fans and creators. I haven't seen the director's cut, but apparently there are more scenes that make the point less watered down, which is lamentable because I think that it could have done far more good.

Moviebob's Big Picture for this week and next takes another look at Sucker Punch.

There's a reason I stopped paying attention to Moviebob, and stuff like that is why.

I may not like his condecending tone, but I am glad someone is spelling it out for what it is.

And again, he's doing a shitty job at that.

The thing is, with movies like this, you're walking a real thin line. On one hand the movie might come off as too prententious, on the other hand people might just not get it because of the flashy effects and stuff, and get confused by the storyline. You can't just simply mix action with a very anvilicious message. It takes careful planning. The message can't be too obvious, otherwise it comes off as just preachy, but it also can't be too subtle.

In this case, it leans on both. On one hand you have the group who can't look past the "action" segments and think the movie is just boring. On the other hand you get the group who thinks, oh god, not this bullshit again. They know it's about abuse of women, but we already have those direct-to-television based-on-a-true-story films for that.

edited 5th Sep '12 2:35:36 AM by GaryCXJk

Ayup, but who watches those apart from old grannies and students who think they are too cool to watch the Tellytubbies, Thundercats or Tree Fu Tom?

Never watched the film myself so cannot comment further on it.

Are you saying he's a failure because it went over someone's head or because you don't like the subject matter?

Again, he was targeting a very specific audience. He wasn't perfect in his execution, but at least he tried to make something intelligent about it. Comic book/video game/and action audiences don't have the best track record with women mainly for ignorance and apathy.

They're in general not the type to see the connection between how they depict characters and think of women with real life consequences.

You know, I never got that this movie was just for women, or just about women. Was there something in the opening sequence I missed. I just thought the point was you don't have to put up with oppression or abuse.

And that someone had an overactive imagination, which is just as well since her talent was Take Our Word for It.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how the movie's message is supposed to be geared specifically to "comic book/video game/action fans". The movie doesn't really have anything that could connect it with comics or games (unless you think the imagination scenes count as "video-gamey" and that Snyder's targeting the fans who saw {{300}} and Watch Men), and "action fan" is such a broad term that you can't really pin that down to anyone.

Hell, if you said it was supposed to be aimed at anime fans, I would've still called it stretching, but given the costuming I would've been able to actually see it.

edited 5th Sep '12 5:56:16 PM by Watchtower

How is a very stylized scene of women wearing completely impractical clothing using various assault weapons and swords against enemies like giant samauri, mechinized zombie soliders, and dragons not something out of a video game or comic?

Consider the outrageous attire worn by popular Marvel and DC, Street Fighter, Soul Caliber, Heavenly Sword, I can go on and on. The butt and boob posing in situations that have no call.

Most of these characters aren't even developed any further than being complete fan service.

They're also not very good at treating their women with respect. When Bane breaks Batman's back, he makes a full recovery. Batgirl gets shot and is paralized for good. In the new Lara Croft, there is illusions to her having to fend off or possibly be the victim of sexual assault as a origin story. Never mind the whole Girlfriend in the Fridge situation comics are notorious for. Or the whole redemption for killing a family member, most often a wife/girlfriend: Silent Hill 2, God of War, the Suffering, etc.

And anime? Jesus! Bezerk, Ninja Scroll, Basilisk, most any hentai known to man...

How is this not geared to the audience that consumes such material in both substance and style?

...Berserk isn't really big on the fanservice thing. Pretty much any time anyone's naked in that manga, baaaaad things happen.

That's kind of my point. In Ninja Scroll we had a badass action girl, who is being molested every other scene. Caska was freaking awesome! And she is so brutalized that she regresses into almost mental retardation.

I wouldn't be too bothered by this, but this is becoming more of the norm and not the worthwhile exception. This trend is what Sucker Punch is making us consider and evaluate.

Why do we need girlfriends as cannon foder and women being brutalized to make heroes? Why are so many comic/video game/action girls made as glorified sex objects?

But more importantly, what does this reflect upon our society and how these cultures value or see women? That's something we need to work on.

Berserk is still pretty equal-opportunity when it comes to that sort of thing. Don't forget Guts' childhood, for starters. It's pretty unfair claim that Casca's brutal rape is there to make Guts a hero while ignoring the fact that Guts himself was raped as a child.

Now Gantz, on the other hand, I think you'd have a point with.

Look at alllllll the comics and video games out there. Beserk is a drop in the bucket. Japan has a lot of their own issues, but the west isn't much better. Hence why Snyder even felt the need to make Sucker Punch.