Image Changin' Etiquette

...which is exactly why I brought this up, because if we can set a loose guideline that the mods approve of, that'll make threads easier to process should they not need a crowner.

If you need a guideline to determine whether it's a consensus, make a crowner. That's my guideline.

Speaking of crowners:

Can we add a short description of the trope/most important points, when we make one? This is not necessary in cases of Exactly What It Says on the Tin trope titles, but some names are misleading and some people vote without reading the discussion or the trope description.

You probably want to make a Tech Wishlist thread for that.

I think consensus is usually a "I know it when I see it" sort of thing. And if you're not sure, it's not a consensus.

I think there are no new functions needed. We can just put the short description in the "At issue:" field.

And another suggestion concerning crowners. When we bump to get more votes we should add a short list of the current crowner status.

^ This definitely. At least the ones in the green or as far as the first major break point in the scores (for example, if there are 8 options in the green at +10, +8, +6, +2, +2, +2,+2 and +1, include the 10, 8 and 6 and a note that the next highest score is +2)

That's a good idea.

When you think a current image is bad, please open with reasons that you think it's bad and then use "!! Motion to pull current image" to get:

Motion to pull current image.

That way we can get a nice, orderly, short vote in to see if the current image merits being pulled down.

Another good idea, but let's clarify that that approach is for pics that don't meet the pull-on-sight criteria.

Should we make a separate sticky listing all the points that are being made in this thread and generally agreed on so that people don't have to scour the whole thread looking for one particular point they may have a question about? Maybe we could call it "Image Picking Etiquette - General Guidelines" and rename this one to "Image Picking Etiquette - Ideas and Discussion".

edited 1st May '11 9:42:07 PM by Willbyr

That last idea sounds good. I'd recommend "Image Pickin' Guidelines" and "IP Discussion" to make it clearer which one is for talking and to stear the newbies toward the right one.

Nice and concise, something I have trouble with...I like it.

I'd also like to request to whoever starts it (or I'll start it, whatever) that instead of making mega posts, the first post has a table of contents and links to posts dealing with different things.

How exactly is an image picking crowner created?
I tried the way described in the first post and an other way that seemed to have worked from another post in the thread. I ended up creating two of something, but none of them shows up in the thread.

Could someone please point out how I should have done it for that specific thread as an example?

There's a specific URL that you can put in the address field in your browser, but what I usually do is go to the Crowner Activity page, find one that's listed under Image Pickin', and change the trope name in the URL to the Camel Case'd trope name that I want to make the crowner for.

It's functionally the same way I did it first time, but it didn't show up in the thread, while for example Fantastic Racism crowner is present in it's thread.

Is it not automated?

edited 6th May '11 5:33:28 AM by Adannor

No it's not automated. To get the crowner on the thread, you use the Holler button ( the yellow triangle in the button bar on every post) and ask a mod to hook it.

edited 6th May '11 8:46:15 AM by Madrugada

Maybe it's been mentioned before, but I suggest that when we vote to pull images, we include the reasons for it. I mean not only for the thread starter, but also the ones below. Otherwise we'll have this:

X: "I suggest to pull. The text there is not very legible and the size exceeds the 350 pixels limit."
Y: "Wow I hate that art. Pull."
Z: "Thirding."

It's not clear here if the ones voting to pull it are doing so for legitimate reasons. The "bad art" argument for example, is definitely not of equal merit than, say, text legibility.

edited 7th May '11 11:21:29 PM by Catalogue

Good idea.

I don't think bad art should be a pullable reason. Art where you can't figure out what's going on, sure, but bad art is so completely subjective. We have a lot of people who think anything anime style is bad art. Should we pull everything in an anime style if we can get three of them together on a thread?

Exactly. Is there any list of common page image problems? That is, legibility, context-insensitivity, and so forth? It's a tad bit too formal, but it's nice when we have one around just in case. "Bad art" goes, obviously, to the "bad reasons to pull/replace an image."

Let's see:

Heavy stylization is a problem because it makes it hard to register what's going on.

Poor image quality, IE: graininess, blurryness, etc. More of an issue with bad shrinkage or something. And whoever the hell is scanning the Negima mangas.

Wall of Text where the image doesn't add anything, or adds so little it might as well not be there.

Too Busy is when there's so much going on in the image that it's hard to spot the aspect that matters.

Trope in the background similar to above but it doesn't require the image to have too much, but where the trope is off in a corner rather than front and center.

Legibility of text is important for any text dependent images. It's vague as one persons legible is another persons string of smudges.

Maybe this can go to the How To Pick A Good Image page. Let's see where I can improve on that (I imagine members will disagree on fine details, but still).

Good reasons to pull/replace an image:

1. JAFAAC: Just a Face and a Caption: the image needs context/familiarity of the work to understand.
   1. Do not mistake this for literal "just a face and a caption." See "False JAFAAC" below.
2. NSFW': Not Safe for Work. "Safe" does not mean simply "the absence of nipples and buttock cleavages;" any image which you would feel uneasy to show to your boss or teacher qualifies as unsafe. This include suggestive imageries even where the characters are fully clothed. Sexualisation of minors is a particularly murky area. We need to be on the safe side.
   1. Classical art, as in Real Life, gets a free pass. Please limit this to nudity—gore and and act of improving the population are still off.
3. Image is copyrighted or watermarked: Self-explanatory.
4. Poor image quality: Image is significantly grainy, blurry, way too dark, etc. in such a way that it outweighs the illustrative quality. More of an issue with bad shrinkage or skewed aspect ratio. It is much preferable that an image depicting the same scene/picture (but with the quality corrected) is used, especially when the image to be replaced was chosen from an Image Pickin' thread.
5. Image is used somewhere else: Image is a duplicate of another page image(s). Different cropping/resizing doesn't matter; one of them should go.
6. Heavy stylization: It makes it hard to register what's going on.
7. Wall of Text: Where the image doesn't add anything, or adds so little value it might as well not be there. A strong reason to replace, a weaker one to pull.
   1. Note that the standards of what constitutes as this vary. See "a little bit of text" below.
8. Text Legibility: Important for any text-dependent image. It's vague as one person's legible is another person's string of smudges.
9. Image is an unnecessary Take That!: In work page images, it's preferable to have an image that maintains a reasonable amount of neutrality. A little snark is acceptable, but don't poison the well by an insult.
10. Too Busy: When there's so much going on in the image that it's hard to spot the aspect that matters; when the actual aspect that we wish to demonstrate takes a backseat to other things that are visually just as striking.
11. Trope in the background: Where the trope is off in a corner rather than front and center.
12. Spoiler: Self-explanatory. The image conveys a spoiler.
    1. It Was His Sled gets a free pass.
13. Demotivators/Macros: These are frowned upon. We already have an image-caption combination, which makes it redundant.

Bad reasons to pull/replace an image:

1. False JAFAAC: "Just a Face and a Caption" is not a literal rule. Personal Appearance Tropes, for example, typically use a face and a caption to illustrate a trope. JAFAAC refers to the images where a context and/or familiarity of the work is needed to get the point across. If the trope is about Blue Eyes, for example, it suffices to show a face bearing the blue eyes in question.
2. Bad art: Unless the art is really bad. If you wish to pull the image simply because you hate the art style, it's not enough to pull or replace.
3. Image comes from a source you dislike: Obviously. As one might expect, protesters tend to sugarcoat this argument with sophistry.
4. A little bit of text: A person's threshold for Wall of Text may differ from another's, but if the visuals are contributing much weight and the content of the text is short enough to be reduced to, say, a page quote, it should be good enough.

edited 8th May '11 11:40:15 PM by Catalogue

I'd rather not codify a set of rules like that. It seems better to leave room for interpretation.