I got Ange.
I got Batora himself. Figured that was where the quiz was leading me too. XD
Speaking of localization, remind me to actually buy RGD when the english patch comes out. I feel like I owe Ryukushi something...
just a medicine seller
I got Ronove. I have no idea how the hell that happened, but it did. BEST OUTCOME EVER. Now, where did I leave my monocle...
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Don't forget to train in pukuku-ing. 
What the hell, half of the combinations I try give me Ange >__< No wonder why so many people have it.
And some combinations give really weird results. If I try :
- Social, dutiful, mature, optimistic
- Fickle
- Blue hair
- Mediocre at puzzle games
- Think a few minutes then give up
- Serve tea and cookies
- Save the life of your relative
- Nothing wrong with having friends and defending them
- Explain logically
- Sacrifice your life
- Magic doesn't exist
- I already know the answer
I get… Bernkastel. Rrrright… ò.Ô
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
2009… so yeah, only non-Chiru characters.
edited 18th Nov '12 12:10:23 PM by Lyendith
Quiz's like that are rather silly, after all.
Hell, I doubt Yasu is even an option! Or the Chiru characters.
Going to try again and then I will try to get Lambdadelta because hell why not.
First run, Ange again. I don't know why. I picked a lot of different answers since I didn't read the quiz right the first time.
Second run I got Beatrice. Come on, I totally gave Lambdadelta answers.
If the quiz is old, it might be based on Lambda/Bern's personality in ep 1-4 too. (That is to say, barely there and highly misleading.)
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
Battler.
Coming back on Episode 3, there is a passage near the end that is quite Hilarious in Hindsight. Battler stutters a theory about one of the people on Rokkenjima having a Split Personality and using that guise to kill Nanjō. At the time it sounded ridiculous and made-up on the spot, but it actually might be the real solution… after that EVA denies that Jessica has a split personality, but she doesn't deny it for other people… now I have two hypothesis…es… theories.
1) On the basis that Kyrie is the murderer of the first twilight. Understanding that Eva had killed Rosa and Maria (and maybe understanding why), she has lured Hideyoshi to the mansion and killed him, in the hope of making Eva go a bit further off the deep end. She then eliminated Rudolf to avoid having a witness, and somehow faked her own death. Shortly after, Eva kills Krauss and Natsuhi because… well, she has gone batshit crazy and paranoid. And in the night, when Nanjō is isolated and Jessica blinded, Kyrie kills him.
2) On the basis that Yasu is the murderer of the first twilight and that "Shannon" only died metaphorically with Nanjō as an accomplice. Eva still killed Maria and Rosa. After Kyrie took her husband (and alibi) to the mansion, she followed them. When they left the kitchen, Eva immediately killed Rudolf, then Kyrie. After that, Hideyoshi tried to reason her, they had a fight, and Eva accidentally fired her gun, killing him. Then, while Natsuhi or Krauss was asleep, she killed the awake one with a piano string or something (the "mutable blade"), then did the same to the asleep one, and carried them in the rose garden. Every time, Yasu burried the stakes in the corpses afterwards. She then killed Nanjō to create a seemingly impossible murder.
As for George, simple: he escaped through the window, with Nanjō closing behind him, went in the parlor and noticed that Shannon was still alive. But she couldn't let him in the confidence, so she killed him… although I don't know with what. Maybe the gun she had taken from Rudolf or Hideyoshi's body? Then she welcomed him like, "don't look for my corpse, I'm behind you."
Now the first theory is admittedly full of holes: it would require Nanjō to be an accomplice (and considering Kyrie's motive, that's unlikely), and Battler once says that the master key of the three had been stolen… and finally, I have no idea how Kyrie would have died after killing Nanjō, unless she met with Eva (but she was with Battler). And it doesn't explain George's death − he wasn't faking his death either, Eva would have noticed his heartbeat or something.
The second theory explains much more things, although, if I remember correctly, there was no trace of a gunshot on Rudolf and Kyrie's bodies (unless, like Hideyoshi was shot in the chest, the shots were in the head and in the stomach, but that would be one hell of a coincidence).
edited 20th Nov '12 1:14:41 AM by Lyendith
Dr. Nanjo is an accomplice under both major culprit theories.
Seems I never gave you my explanation of the third novel. Here goes. As a frame work, here's a blue truth.
Eva does kill people, but the motive is explained later.
Due to the radical shift in tactics to the murders between the 1st and 2nd twilights, it is possible that Eva-Beatrice also symbolizes that there are two culprits. The take home message in Bernkastel's game in the 7th novel (revealed in a cryptic way) is that the truth of the murders is that there were two culprits.
Note: We see practically NOTHING regarding what happens from the cousin's perspectives and at the end there is 4 hours of time (7-11:15 PM) missing.
1st Twilight: The manga makes it clear that Rosa and Kyrie left the meeting first to supposedly watch the kids, meaning that their alibi is weak and thus they are valid suspects. Battler solves the how in the 4th novel.
Rosa commited this murder using a chain closed room in a way that it creates the illusion of a ring. The Rose glyph on Shannon is a metaphor for being shot in the back.
2nd: Twilight: The nature of the murders seems to indicate that they were not pre-meditated. The hand print on Maria's corpse appears to be masculine due to the slightly broader shape of the finger prints. If Shannnon and Kanon are the same person, then Shannon is as equally weak and puny as Kanon thus her physical ability to overpower and throw Rosa is suspect. This murder is the first in many in a pattern of Maria dying shortly after Rosa does ( 5th, 6th, and to a lesser extent 7th novel), which is good evidence regarding the connection between Maria and Beatrice.
George killed Rosa, then killed Maria.
4th-6th Twilight: The obvious culprit to me suggests that "there are no tricks to this murder".
George killed these people. Eva is completely innocent.
7th-8th Twilight: The "mutable blade" refers to a "formless weapon"
Eva killed Krauss and Natsui with poison in their coffee. Remember that she was the one who made it. Her motive was vigilantee action as an attempt to stop the murders, which due to her madness, goes horribly wrong.
9th Twilight: The posistion of the wounds seems to indicate that George's death was not instant, meaning he bled out.
Dr. Nanjo shot George. The posistion of the shot indicates a panicked defensive shot. George regained conciousness and killed Dr. Nanjo. Since the scene with Shannon is in the fantasy perspective, only the ending to the murder scenario actually matters.
edited 20th Nov '12 3:28:21 PM by magnum12
Why would George kill Rosa and Maria though? It's also made clear by Battler's perspective that he stayed with the cousins the whole time (same for the 4th to 6th twilights). Eva has a motive, no alibi and the strength to commit the murders.
As for Nanjō killing George, that would require him to jump by the window and climb back, which seems difficult… and he doesn't have a gun.
There is also the question of where the stakes would have come from. It makes sense for Yasu to have them, but for George?
Concerning Rosa and Maria's consecutive deaths, that's more of a coincidence. In Banquet Eva couldn't have let Maria live after killing Rosa, in Dawn they just happened to play dead in the same room when Erika killed them, and in Requiem Kyrie went on an indiscriminate killing spree. But it's true that Maria's death usually indicates that Beatrice has lost control over the game.
edited 21st Nov '12 5:47:24 AM by Lyendith
I get the feeling that Rosa and Maria's death in Ep3 is indicative of a crime of passion - Eva and Rosa are arguing about the gold, Eva pushes her, and she falls on the spike. Maria is strangled so she keeps quiet.
An alternative scenario could be one where Rosa goes too far in trying to shut her up, Eva stumbles across the scene, the argument stems from that, same idea of pushing occurs, etc. Or Eva pushes Rosa onto the fence, runs off, Yasu comes across Maria bawling who begs her to let her go to the golden land where she can be with Mama, and mercy-kills her.
I've been following this for awhile, [1]
a Tumblr going through a reread of the games from two different people, and their insights are really interesting. Like, how screamingly obvious the connection between Kanon and Beatrice is in EP 1, but how Ryukushi threw everyone off by messing with gender expectations. Or how cunningly she uses the other servants to keep up her deception, sans Gohda.
And how Kyrie explains the entire plot, like right out there in the open. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
[2]
◊
edited 21st Nov '12 10:32:31 AM by Oroboro
Double post time! Man, did I kill the thread or something? =(
Anyway, I wanted to share this analysis of the scene in Episode 1 where Kanon confronts Beatrice, as it really highlights the core truths of the series as a whole.
... spoilers, I guess, on the off chance someone new is popping into this topic. I don't feel like trying to make this all work in a hottip. >_>
- First off, even though EP 1 largely misleads you by presenting a bunch of “mundane” (read: Kinzo yelling at everyone) fantasy scenes - so that presumably you wouldn’t realize it’s as inundated with fantasy as every other episode until later - Kanon encounters an in-your-face fantasy presentation here. The golden butterflies, Beatrice’s shapeless form, her laugh… this is a hint to both EP 1’s nature in general, and again, Kanon is the sole character who is portrayed as or reports having direct encounters with these “magical” elements - so if you’re reading closely and accept that it can’t be a witch, this should be triggering warning flags against him.
- Secondly, in his defiant speech against Beatrice, Kanon gives away some pretty intimate knowledge about Beatrice and her plan that wasn’t apparent when the servants were discussing the simple ghost story. The roulette, the arrangement with “Kinzo,” Beatrice being summoned, etc.
- Most importantly, this is a really good scene to talk about the “three stories” of Umineko that Dlanor references in Our Confession.
- First off, you have the fantasy layer - which is basically, straightforwardly, what we’re being given here. The servant Kanon tries to fight back against the evil witch, Beatrice, but is overpowered and killed by her magic. Everyone is innocent and noble except for the evil witch.
- Secondly, you have the mystery layer - the story portrayed in “Our Confession.” In that, Yasu is a methodical, rather cold-blooded killer, carrying out her mislead tactics and her scheme with no hesitation. If this scene was re-written in the style of “Our Confession,” what we would see is Yasu calmly - with Kumasawa’s cooperation - painting the blood makeup over the stake and on her own shirt and mouth as Kanon, ordering Kumasawa to scream, and then laying down and waiting for everyone to come so that “Kanon” can fake his death.
- But the third story - the story of Yasu’s innermost feelings and her internal conflict - is the most important and the deepest part, as Dlanor said? When you look at it from that interpretation, the things that Kanon are saying in the fantasy layer, and the events that are occurring on the mystery layer, all come together - Yasu is wrestling with herself, her determination, her self-loathing, and what she is doing here. The mental image I get of her is her struggling not to throw up, paralyzed with doubt.
- Kanon’s talk about the roulette is very important to translate as far as Yasu’s feelings go, too. As “Kanon,” she’s thinking about opposing “Beatrice.” Yasu’s roulette in its most basic form, as Kanon explains, is set up to have two primary outcomes, black or red—either Yasu is caught, exposed, and stopped, or everyone fails to stop her, and the Golden Land, a world of fantasy, is born from the bomb. When Kanon declares that “Beatrice” has forgotten the third outcome of the roulette, the “zero”—a very slim one that Kanon proclaims his existence will now embody—it’s hard not to think he’s talking about anything other than the possibility of… Yasu putting a stop to all of this herself.
- In other words, right here, Kanon is the part of Yasu who knows this is wrong, and thinks that she should go right back up, turn off the bomb, confess everything, and turn herself in (and probably kill herself to make it all stop.) Kanon declares that he’s willing to do this “even at the cost of his life”- taking this course of action would probably end in Yasu’s death, and would certainly also result in the end of Kanon’s existence for all time.
- Kanon shaking badly as he struggles with all of this. Uuu, Yasu.
- But of course, Yasu can’t bring herself to go through with it. The will of the “witch” and temptation she offers is too powerful. In the end, she’s already gone too far, and she continues to go through with the epitaph murders, using Kanon…
- The narrative describes Kanon pulling the stake out as a “final act of defiance.” You could easily, cynically, read this as Yasu obviously not having any choice but to arrange things this way if she’s going to fake her death, but this is also a really important hint for Battler that Kanon didn’t actually die.
- It was a clever set-up, though. The stench in the boiler room means no one is going to pick up that there’s no actual smell of blood, and it’s all make-up.
- Yasu also buys time to keep Battler and Natsuhi from examining things too closely by leaving the boiler room door open, as Battler rushes through to try and chase after the unseen “culprit.”
edited 26th Nov '12 7:21:57 PM by Oroboro
Don't worry, it's just a calm period. And I'm not done rereading Alliance. I had forgotten how long that Episode was.
Great analysis ; I never attached that much importance to that scene before, dismissing it as just a fantastic deception. 
I thought of Kanon as "the hidden negative feelings" of Yasu (badmouthing people she didn't like in her place), but I didn't think of him as "Yasu's remorse and hesitation".
edited 27th Nov '12 4:56:46 AM by Lyendith
Huh… I'll have to double post again… it would be more convenient if we could edit the post, delete it, then repost it. Whatever.
There's something I still don't understand in Episode 4: when Ange is on the boat, she "revives" Sakutarō and says it's been a long time… even though she saw him just a few days ago in the hotel room. Similarly, they all say that Maria couldn't summon Sakutarō after his "death", even though both in Saint-Lucia and in the hotel room, she was talking with him… I feel there is a huge and unexplained Retcon here… whether Maria and Sakutarō are real or a delusion isn't even the matter. But I don't think something so obviously contradictory would be a mere mistake from Ryukishi. So I'm lost…
edited 29th Nov '12 11:30:07 AM by Lyendith
It's been a long time since I've actually read EP 4, but Ange's story is pretty confusing, with flashbacks nested in flashbacks and fantasy scenes. There's probably a time skip somewhere in between those two scenes.
On another note, this is one of the few hints the anime (and possibly manga) versions did better, and it implies that Ange found a stuffed Sakutaro on the boat, that Rosa had forgotten there in 1986, presumably she intended to give it to Maria.
11/29.
-remembers EP 7-
"Strategy? Spacing? I just keep punching until I hit something." - Sol Badguy
Happy Birthday Beatrice?
It's been a long time since i read EP 4 too, but as far as i remember the Sakutaro and Maria that Ange saw in the hotelroom was just a memory or something. Its heavily implied that Ange finds a Sakutaro copy in the boat captains house (I think he had a pillow shop or something in his house and in the end of that segement Ange notices something in the room that is not shown) and realizes that Rosa never made Sakutaro herself and just bought a mass produced toy. Ange then "revives" him on the boat (as in she understands magic or something, Umineko is confusing).
There is a sidestory in Umineko Tsubasa called Sakutaro on Purgatory Mountain or something like that that also heavily implies this.
just a medicine seller
A day late, but happy birthday Beatrice!
^Yeah, I think that's the right interpretation. The manga has a shot of Ange looking all shocked when she sees the "something" in the boat owner's shop too.
Or that, yeah. It all fits into the nature of magic, either way. "Beatrice" couldn't revive Sakutaro, because as much fun as they had together coming up with imaginary friends, in Maria's eyes, Sakutaro was the stuffed animal, and Rosa had "killed" him.
...
Best Mom Ever!!!
………
And we were supposed to figure that out ourselves when Ange looks at a random point in Kawabata's house? >__< Well, I'm a bit less confused now. But jeez, some things in this series would be better if they were said explicitly.
About the hotel room, I suppose it's something like that yeah… the MARIA and Sakutarō of the diary would be different entities than those of 1985. Feels like Gratuitous Mind Screw though.
Anyway, yeah, happy birthday BEATORIIICHEEEEE. Now that I think about it, Battler's guess was right about 07151129.
edited 30th Nov '12 2:50:33 PM by Lyendith
There's a ton of lines (especially in EP 1)where Battler or someone else is 100% on the money, but they brush it off/ don't think hard enough / "OH THAT'S TOO OBVIOUS". Manipulates the readers quite expertly.
edited 1st Dec '12 1:21:17 PM by Oroboro
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
Paging quickly through this thread to avoid spoilers for Umineko... 0_0 Anyway. I thought I should mention there's an image-picking thread for NightmareFuel.Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni right now, and the crowner is ready (though all of the options are from the manga and anime, not the visual novel).
edited 1st Dec '12 7:12:58 PM by Noaqiyeum
The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
Regarding the sales, the true number was somewhere around 600.
Regarding that quiz, I got Ange as well.