When They Cry - Higurashi and Umineko

I think it's the next route that provides the background for why Ooishi is so obsessed with this case, maybe?

Ah, you've gotten to the point where you've realized Keiichi's POV isn't necessarily reliable.

I don't remember well, but wasn't Ooishi on Teppei's tail in the third arc?

Anyway, you have a pretty good train of thought so far. Try not to lose it. Because everything in the end of this arc will try to confuse the hell out of you.

Teppei's murder really is an incredible scene, huh. I remember I could almost feel the fatigue, the mud and the dripping rain on my skin. You're completely wrapped into the madness of it all.

I don't remember. I just remember him being all antagonistic towards Keiichi just because he'd committed a cold blooded murder and suspected a coverup by the local yakuza family. Talk about overreacting.

Okay, what the hell was that? Finished Tatarigoroshi-hen just now. Firstly I regret not playing this all the way through last time. Turns out I was pretty close to the end anyway.

So, another bad ending. Satoko hates you and then you hoped the entire village died. I'm still trying to collect my mind on what happened. Keiichi mentions before he loses consciousness that he must've been missing since the night of Watanagashi, along with Satoko's uncle. Alone that would've made everything afterwards a hallucination, but since he survived, it was that part was wishful thinking, I assume. In the end we don't even learn whether or not he actually killed the uncle. Among other things. It's just...so strange, ending the route this way. Can't deny I'm very curious though.

Seeing the list of casualties in the credits was kind of heartbreaking. Okamura and Tomita ;_;. Curiously, Tomitake, Takano, and Shion died the same way as the previous arc. Those three in particular form an 'outsider' trio to me, but I'm curious what are the circumstances behind them. Rika dies again too, poor girl. Sonozaki family must really hate her. Ripped stomach is pure evidence 'S' did it.

Now, the big thing. The volcano gas thing. Is it exclusive to this route, and is simply byproduct of Keiichi's wish? Or is it an important element to keep in mind for later arcs? Maybe that was the true calamity awaiting in Hinamizawa. Maybe. Ending it with that just doesn't feel quite as scary as the other two endings. The recording in the epilogue sure left a creeping sensation though.

The second big thing. The footsteps behind Keiichi. Assuming Oyashiro-sama does exist then naturally it's safe to assume Oyashiro's following Keiichi around, granting his wishes. Curiously, these steps started after the murder and only stopped for a while when he fell down the suspension bridge. Then it came back to finish him off. Why? And why doesn't it apepar in any other route so far? It somewhat reminds me of when Keiichi tries to remember buying cup noodles at the supermarket and tries to recall whether Rena was behind him or not(Which to me is still the scariest scene in the game, and the most brilliant one too).

God I love the all-cast review sessions. They genuinely make me smile.

edited 2nd Jun '15 1:05:18 AM by danna45

Double posting is bad but, I really need to get this off my chest.

Another arc is done with and I’m now halfways through Higurashi. At first I thought Himatsubushi would be my least favorite arc but by the time I reach the end I found myself liking it quite a lot too. There are a decent number of things about this chapter to think about. Firstly, the gas event happens again. It’s definitely a crucial plot point now, I’m sure.

Rika…is in a time loop. I’m convinced. It’s a visual novel, it has to be. Alternatively she could be, as the game suggests, a prophet of some sort, but considering we’ve experienced three different routes already, it’s not hard to accept that they’re all different iterations of the loop. Considering she tries to help Akasaka, I hope she gets out of the loop someday.

Ooishi is out of my suspicions for sure this time. That’s really all I have to say about him. In the end he was a great helper for Akasaka. And talking about those two, I really liked the epilogue at the end when they resolve to…well, solve the case. And they published a book named…Higurashi when they cry. It’s a nice meta moment.

Now, all-cast review’s Rena tells me I should do my best to figure out who’s the perpetrator before I start playing the answer arcs, so at least I’ll try. Firstly, Rika is not the killer. I’m pretty sure of that. She’s the victim, of a time loop, which the true perpetrator is also responsible for most likely. Next, Keiichi, our resident narrator can’t be ‘it’ either. He only moved in recently. The same can kind of be said for Rena, although she and Mion are most likely responsible for Onikakushi-hen’s fifth year’s case. Even so, she isn’t it. Mion by the way has been the most suspicious in our circle of friends, but because the explanation of Sonozaki family being behind the time loop is impossible. Or rather, at this point, I’m not sure which mystery I should be solving. Is it the mystery behind the serial cases? Is it the one behind Rika’s death? Or the footsteps behind Keiichi? Or the reason why each route has different outcomes? The culprit behind these are probably the same person but the angle to view them are different. The Sonozaki family being behind the serial cases is believable, but being the ones who caused Rika’s time loop? Not so. And because someone mentioned Knox’s laws earlier, I will believe with all my might that the true criminal is one of the characters we’ve been introduced to already. With that, I say, my suspects are Takano Miyo and Tomitake, together as accomplices. It makes sense at least, for the serial cases, that Tomitake would be behind the murders in the past four years, since apparently he’s been visiting Hinamizawa once a year just for that. Takano Miyo lives there so she could’ve been helping him. Now, on the fifth year, because Tomitake dies every time, perhaps there was a disagreement between the two of them. This is supported by how suspicious Takano was on the night of Watanagashi in Tatarigoroshi-hen. How did they actually cause the murders? I don’t know. The cases were solved, but maybe they can do some magic. Time loops are involved after all. Or Oyashiro-sama truly does exist and has been helping them. I believe the culprits are human, but I can’t quite say that the supernatural isn’t involved. It still doesn't explain a lot of other things but at least, Tomitake and Takano are accomplices. That's my theory. Do not tell me if I'm right. Sorry for the text-wall.

The volcano gas thing could be a considered a hint to the fundamental reason for certain bad things keep happening. It reminded me of a book I read that let me figure out what was more or less going on.

About the footsteps, I think they or something like them were mentioned before Tatarigoroshi. They definitely come up again in Meakashi, at least.

And no, not telling you if your theory is right or wrong. You did ask a question about which mysteries you should be focusing on and I can tell you one thing you don't need to worry about right now, but I'll leave it in spoiler tags in case you don't even want that.

Whether Rika is a prophet or traveling through time is probably not particularly important. Don't worry about that or how it works if it's occurring. Maybe Rika can just see alternate worlds or something, then you don't need to know why there are different routes or how she seems to know a bit too much. Everything else matters.

In any case, from here on out the story starts giving you the answers rather than just giving you evidence. And unlike Umineko they actually do give out the answers without wasting a bunch of time.

Basically, you need to spot the events that occur the same way every time, and find out who or what is behind them. That's the main key to solving the whole thing.

Also keep in mind that Keiichi dies in Onikakushi and Watanagashi, so what happens afterwards is unknown.

Umineko doesn't "waste time to give answers". The readers are supposed to find the anwers themselves from the hints scattered in every scene and every dialogue, of course it's not gonna give them away that easily. Well, that was in the VN at least, the manga is another story…

edited 2nd Jun '15 11:25:36 AM by Lyendith

I don't think that's good enough. Yeah, you can get the gist of it, but there's no confirmation and, if you're interested in the howdunnit (and I'm honestly not) there's no way to check your answers. Plus the ending was crap.

Also, it's important when things don't happen the same way as well.

Wait, didn't Keiichi live through Watanagashi?

Come on, Umineko's ending is one of the few things that made me cry. =[ It's beautiful (though the final battle before that is bleh, I can give you that). Higurashi was kind of the opposite for me (fun final "battle", but bleh ending).

Keiichi died when Zombion visited him at the hospital, which was only a few days after the whole funk with Shmion I think.

edited 2nd Jun '15 12:19:24 PM by Lyendith

The final battle is ridiculous. And doesn't really make much sense. And the events after it don't really resolve much of anything.

...I don't really remember that. The last scene of that route I remember is someone narrating about how Stabby McMurderjerk shouldn't have been able to stab Keiichi for whatever reason, an event he lived through. Or maybe the last scene I remember was her dying? My memory of what happened then is quite fuzzy.

I agree with Lyendith on Umineko. I'll leave it at that.

Watanagashi ended with Keiichi in the hospital, Oiishi visiting him and telling him it shouldn't have been possible for him to get stabbed, and then him leaving. When he's alone, he gets assaulted by Zombion, like Lyendith says.

… Wait, actually… since Shion killed Rika in that arc, the massacre probably didn't happen afterwards… it still did after Onikakushi though.

Anyway, if you're starting Meakashi, prepare a few boxes of tissues, and an appointment with your psychologist.

And if you're like me be prepared to really dislike that arc's villain.

Maybe I should reread Higurashi after all. Onikakushi is kind of a struggle for me to get through now though.

Keiichi's fate in Watanagashi-hen was death by cardiac arrest, as Zombion was a hallucination.

The "final battle" and the scenario that unfolds may have actually been foreshadowed by a TIP in Tatagoroshi-hen.

Fun Fact: Five Nights At Freddys may have taken some influence from When They Cry. The Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane premise, emphasis on Psychological Horror, Golden Freddy (in gameplay) from a mystery perspective being the same solution as the Watanagashi-hen ending, and Umineko's find the truth for yourself approach.

-Fun Fact 2: We can all say that When They Cry went full blown mainstream (in Japan at least) status due to the parodies and refernces made to it. Disgaea D2's episode 7 preview is an Umineko parody. Rena's signature "tool" ( a nata) shows up as an equipable weapon (sword instead of an axe for some reason) in both D2 and 4. The sprite is a perfect likeness too.

I thought it was pretty big in Japan, with 4 selling 150K+ in Japan in the first week.

edited 2nd Jun '15 4:04:13 PM by magnum12

And I'm pretty sure I've seen a "USO DA" parody in a MonMusu chapter…

edit: Damn you, English title policy. >.<

edited 2nd Jun '15 2:39:45 PM by Lyendith

Disgaea is actually pretty niche.

(Nope, haven't started the new arc yet) Glad I don't have to worry about Rika for now. Footsteps came up in the aforementioned Onikakushi-hen TIP scene but other than that I don't quite remember.

Keiichi dies in Watanagashi-hen a while after the night of the festival(Depends on how long he was hospitalized before Ooishi visited him).

Something I forgot to mention but Himatsubushi brought me my second favorite TIP scene. Choosing between the red and the blue box. The scene was just so weird compared to everything else so far I can't help but like it. I went for the red box first and didn't learn what was in the blue box. Then I replayed and picked the blue box and the narrator knew. It's just coding and changing in-game variables but that was...thought provoking. The metaphors used in the writing are tasteful, to say the least.

Got some info. Turns out the Steam release has sold very...VERY well within the first two weeks. At least compared to the visual novel medium.

Hope was properly placed on this one, meaning we'll get the other novels.

Ah, the Kai arcs...seem to be rather troublesome. Mangagamer, why didn't you release everything as a single game...Anyway, applied the usual font and interface patch to it. Luckily I found a decent sprite patch but I can't tell if it includes backgrounds too yet. As for the music patch I went to the wiki and got the 'Original Music for EP 5' one. I'm hoping that's all there is that needs patching.

Shion is our narrator this time, and it certainly is different to see inside her head. I can't help but read her narration in Mion's voice. Not that I've actually heard anyone's voice in the game so far. They really are twins.

Only got up to the first tip screen. Only updated since I wanted to say, OH MY GOD IT'S DEAR, YOU. AHHHH, IN THE TIP SCREEN, AND ALSO ON THE INTRODUCTION CREDITS SCENE. THIS SONG IS HALF THE REASON I PICKED UP THIS GAME. EVER SINCE I HEARD THE FOREGROUND ECLIPSE REMIX I LOVED THE SONG.

And it's half the reason I told you to prepare tissues. The musics in Kai are amazing, especially the melancholic and sad ones.

Oh you're certainly right on that so far. The music quality's been noticeably improving from Watanagashi onwards(Although at this point I can't judge much since I switched to the new OST for Tatarigoroshi and kept it that way), and sound-wise Meakashi is definitely up there so far. Can't say I feel it's quite top 3 material but maybe that'll change in hindsight. Either way, preparing tissues.

Got to when Shion finally hears footsteps behind her, and thinks it's Satoshi. Now I'm really thinking that maybe, the Mion at the end of Watanagashi-hen was Shion, and vice-versa after all. Maybe I was right, damn. I was also almost convinced at one point that the 'Mion' we see most of the time in the village was Shion, but that just seems redundant and is already confirmed false.

Well, it certainly is nice to finally meet Houjou Satoshi. But in the end we still don't know the details to the most crucial part, his disappearance. It was quite chilling to see how he mirrors Keiichi's actions a year later in Tatarigoroshi(Or rather, the other way round). Speaking of which, Keiichi has a sprite now. And he talks about cosplay porn. God I love him.

On the talk of narrators, I can't get myself to like Shion the way I do Keiichi or even Akasaka. Maybe it's because I have an inkling she's probably the main villain of the arc. Or maybe I can't sympathize with the yandere traits she's showing. Or something. But she definitely isn't the main culprit.

And Kasai is just too good a person. I'm glad he doesn't seem to be tortured much.

Meakashi's over ;_; Yeah, by the end that was really sad. And what the hell, Kasai dies of liver cancer? Poor guy. And boo, no all-cast review session for this arc? Damn.

I WAS RIGHT. IT WAS MION WHO WAS IMPRISONED AFTER ALL. Or was it Shion? The whole Shmion schtick really is confusing. Mion and Shion switched places often when they were young, but this was impossible after Mion got the tattoo. Except, Shion had switched with her at the time, so now they're stuck as Shion and Mion. For clarity's sake, the one that likes Satoshi will be addressed as Shion, for now. I can sympathize with Shion, slightly. Seeing the events of Watanagashi-hen from the eyes of our crazy narrator was interesting. The scary or 'dark' scenes from the first time round felt very different from Shion's perspective. Keiichi's last phone call, the confrontation between Keiichi, Rena, and 'Mion', and most importantly Keiichi calling her a demon. Shit, none of that was apparent in the second arc. "I'm sorry I was born" was a really sad line to read, but I like that Ooishi concluded that it was a happy diary. Even though she caused a lot of shit just for Satoshi, even if she's a demon, and even if killing Mion at the end was compltely unnecessary and overkill(heh), I still want Shion to find a happy ending by the time the 8th arc finishes. Hopefully.

So the bloody Shmion that Keiichi saw the end of Watanagashi-hen was just a delusion then? Since he dies of a stroke later apparently.

Rika was really, really, really brutal this time. Truth be told I think I saw the anime version of this particular scene on youtube a long while back. Didn't have the context for anything but I'm glad I finally get to see it written. But either way, I suppose this is what Rika meant when she said she'll 'take care of it'. Satoko's death was dignified. My respect points for her went up after that.

And in the end I still don't know who the true perpetrator is, or even where Satoshi is. My thoughts are becoming a mess after 5 different arcs, but I think I have the main ideas still remembered. Tomitake still dies the same way, and Takano too. Rika still seems to know the future, and Rena is still scary. I have a slight inkling that maybe Rika is the true perpetrator but that doesn't make sense, hopefully.

I honestly don't remember who Kasai is. Is he Shion's, what, driver or something? That sounds about right.

Mion and Shion were born with the opposite names. Shion (formerly Mion) went bonkers because she's kind of a bitch and then did various naughty things. Everyone refers to them by the names they use in the present.

Shion isn't a villain in later arcs because the second half of Higurashi is about giving answers, not just freaking the reader out with atrocities/raising questions. Still, I am not super enthusiastic about Shion because... Well, I guess I can't explain why not yet.

edited 6th Jun '15 12:21:20 AM by Arha

Yep he's the driver. The guy who Shion suspects liked her mom but lost.

and yeah, using the names they use at present is a lot less confusing. In the end, I still like Mion more. And by this arc I'm utterly convinced she and Keiichi would be a good couple.

So yay, Shion will still be relevant in the upcoming arcs. Looking forward to Tsumihoroshi...once I get the patches applied. O Mangagamer, why...

That's because Mion is the best character!

Shion is not exactly super relevant from here on. I don't remember if she's even in Tsumihoroboshi or whatever at all. She was never really a full part of the group the way Mion or Satoko were and that doesn't change.

edited 6th Jun '15 12:50:11 AM by Arha