When They Cry - Higurashi and Umineko

I wasn't talking about graphics, myself. I am talking about the whole package. The VN had less then stellar graphics^note although I do love the backgrounds, but more than made up for it with the build up, music and narration. The anime is much more rushed, so that ruins the build up and, naturally, can't have the narration. What they could improve is the visual presentation and sounds, but the visual is still rather bad and the soundtrack is nothing special^note OP and ED aside. That is why I say that overall the atmosphere of the game is better. It is not just because DEEN suck at animating.

What hurt the anime the most is the lack build up. Unavoidable, I admit, but Higurashi VN is a really slow going story and it really uses it to its favor. It may tire you at the beginning, but it is used to great effect to create the right atmosphere for the story. The anime had to scrap that which made it poorer in comparison.

Maybe. But I loved how immersive Higurashi was and how I was constantly tense without knowing what would come next. "Pretty decent" is a step down from that.

But this is comparatively, of course. I watched the anime back to back with the VN, so I naturally could only see its flaws back then, but I am sure it is a great anime despite its silly animation (unlike Umineko, which is just terrible). It wouldn't have become so popular otherwise. All I am saying is in comparison to the original. The VN is better and you should try that version if you have a chance. Otherwise, the anime surely isn't a bad pick.

Perhaps what we truly need is a relaunch of the anime. One done by Studio SHAFT (the people behind the masterpiece Puella Magi Madoka Magica). A more faithful adaptation with better faces and more importantly MORE EPISDOES PER novel for better pacing and less missing content. I'm thinking the following (note: I forget how many chapters the 7th and 8th novel took up in the anime):

Onikakushi-hen: 6

Watanagashi-hen: 7

Tatagoroshi-hen: 8

Time Wasting Chapter: 4

Meakashi-hen: 9

Tsumbihoroboshi-hen: 8

Minagoroshi-hen: 8-10

Festival Music Chapter: 8-10

One more thing, if a relaunch does Kira, can the magical girl episode be done....better. Rika's MG form does a poor job fitting the dark source material. Rika being a gun slinging (pistols, uzis,) explosive toting, scythe using (reference to connections to Bernkastel) chronomancer (basically a time mage) is WAY more fitting. That and her constantly being in the "adult Rika" voice all episode long.

Who's with me in this potential request for an anime relaunch to 7th Expansion?

edited 15th Oct '14 8:24:16 AM by magnum12

Yeah. With the new Fate Stay Night coming out, that idea is not as out there anymore. Then again, the new F/sn is a different story from the previous, so it is not quite the same. But Umineko is unfinished so hopefully someone get that idea. Higurashi is much less likely, I would think, as it is a complete story on its own rights. And a new adaptation is probably not really needed. The old is not perfect, but it is hardly awful either.

PS:You edited that episode count as I was writing. As I've said, I don't find a new Higurashi to be particularly likely or needed, although I would like it. However, as much as I would love more episodes per arc (to create that "build up" I mentioned), I don't think that many is realistic, unfortunately. That would be 58-62 episodes. How many animes are that long nowadays?

PPS:The Kai anime actually adapted Minagoroshi-hen and Matsuribayashi-hen in 19 episodes, which is about what you proposed. Of course, the Kai anime was a massive improvement over the first season. Probably because they had more time to do stuff as they were adapting less chapters.

edited 16th Oct '14 3:31:29 AM by Heatth

Higurashi was 51 episodes long, 5 of them being either the TIP at the end of the 6th novel or the 4 episode filler arc requested by R7 due to DEEN cutting a lot of stuff from various arcs, and the bonus Cat Killing chapter (post 6th novel filler who's purpose was as a Chekhov's Gun for part of the solution presented in the 7th novel).

Going back on the numbers I think they can be revised taking the requested 4 episodes into account, which should give a similar target number required to get everything from the novels put in (including critical twists that were flat out missed).

Onikakushi-hen: 5

Watanagashi-hen: 5

Tatagoroshi-hen: 6

Time Wasting Chapter: 3

Meakashi-hen: 7 (Proposed relaunch 1st season ends here)

Sub Total: 26

Tsumbihoroboshi-hen: 7 (1 for the TIP at the end, proposed relaunch 2nd season starts here)

Minagoroshi-hen: 9 (looked back and the number in the anime was 8, yet this is considered one of the more faithfully adapted chapters)

Festival Music Chapter: 12 (anime episodes was 11).

Sub Total: 28

Total Episodes: 54

edited 15th Oct '14 9:10:53 PM by magnum12

That is almost what we got. It have about one extra episode per arc but that is about it. I would love if it was made, of course, but I not sure how practical and necessary it would be. And 54 episodes still seems out of touch with the current anime series. Most don't get half of that.

Is it worth waiting for the Steam release for the VN, or should I just get the older version and play it now? Also, what is the correct order for playing the V Ns?

Please do not play the original english release of Higurashi's VN. It is terrible.

And, if you mean in relation to Umineko and Higurashi, Higurashi first. It has only a few connections to Umineko, so honestly it doesn't matter /that/ much. I read Umineko first just fine.

OK, thank you very much! I'll wait for the Steam re translation then.

New topic for debate. Was The inspiration for Shion Sonozaki from Sakura Matou? The two have a disturbing amount in common such as being infected with parasites, infamy for being yandere under the right triggers, and the first target of their rampage being abusive grandparent figures (biological or. Adoptive).

I'd say Kohaku was probably the main inspiration, given that Fate came out after Watanagashi.

I don't think they have much in common. Shion doesn't really come off as sympathetic, for starters. And not in the way I don't find Sakura sympathetic: Shion is completely crazy and vicious.

I didn't have that much of a problem with both characters but Shion isn't as crazy as most people make her sound. she is somewhat more vicious than most but she isn't ax crazy and then there is the whole Hinamizawa thing.

I don't find base line Shion so much viscous more like has anger issues (probably due to years of abuse caused by that unsympathetic witch Onryu) leading to Knight Templar grade protectiveness.

Found something interesting related to this topic. There was a long delay between the 3rd and 4th novel. The big reveal of Shion's past was in summer 2005, 1.5 years after FSN. Supposedly R7 and the nasuverse author know each other. This might give credibility to the Sakura connection theory assuming brain storming was occurring during the hiatus between novels.

She tortures innocent children to death and laughs about it. When Shion goes crazy she really goes crazy.

I'll agree that Shion is particularly vicious, but there's a lot of sympathy thrown her way. Whether you agree or not that it works is debatable, but you can't deny that.

edited 14th Jan '15 6:21:54 AM by Crinias

She's also not crazy all the time.

Agreed. While "hate plague" Shion is horrific to be sure, my argument about Shion being sympathetic is based on her base line personality. Chief point in mind: in Minagoroshi-hen, Shion was the most horrified with her past actions. So much she could barely talk about it and was positively hell-bent on atoning for it, especially to Satako.

On another note, she was already L4 before the cotton drifting festival in Meakashi-hen, since she heard the foot steps (episode 18 I think it was).

Her baseline, non evil personality doesn't have much in common with Sakura though. Sure, there are superficial similarities, but that's it. What matters is how such things affect behavior.

Funny most outsiders thought that Rena was the poster girl for crazy in this series but I always though that other than Chie, there was no reference to FSN. :/

That's nonsense. She's a Tsukihime reference.

Is anybody following the Umineko manga releases? (They just finished releasing Episode 6 and are keeping up quite well with Episode 8) Since I haven't enough patience for visual novels and the anime adaptation is... what it is, the manga is the best way for me to experience this story. Which, I have to say, can be quite wonderful.

Expecially Episode 8. The whole thing with Ange, the debate about facing hard truths, the thing about accepting the past with neither resenting nor justifying the abusers, about tragedies not having a single culprit but being born from toxic morals and everything... It's pretty deep and good stuff, even with Japan's typical lack of subtlety (which I love, by the way) and maybe even because of this.

So, what I wanted to say is, if you're a fan of the visual novel you should really check out the manga. Expecially Episode 8, since I've read it steers quite a bit away from the original novel.

edited 18th Mar '15 2:16:12 AM by Cozzer

Do you mean you read Episode 8 without having finished Episode 6 or 7?

I follow the manga pretty closely, although I haven't kept up with the recent English releases − partly because there were so many chapters at once, and partly because I just received my Japanese volumes of Episode 8 that I will take my time savouring. /o/

Hum, at any rate, yeah, the Episode 8 manga has really a lot of additions from the VN, and pretty great ones if you ask me. I especially like the way the Halloween party replays a lot of scenes and tricks of former episodes, but in a light and funny way, as if to "dedramatize" them and tell you "okay, no need to worry, the nightmare is over" (well that's before Bernkastel happened at least). After that it's an interesting pendent to Episode 7: that one revealed answers in a soft, warm and veiled way; Episode 8 takes the opposite approach by ripping the veil brutally and exposing the truth in all its coldness. Something that was completely absent from the Episode 8 VN, where very few additional answers were given.

I tried waiting for previous episodes to be translated entirely but well... Still, I had spoilered myself pretty much everything, so I haven't had any problem in keeping up with Episode8.

Anyway, I really love the message that Ep8 manga (don't know about the visual novel) gives about "good people have bad sides, and bad people have good sides and where do you draw the line and is it even worth to think about it when everything is said and done".

… might as well post that here rather than in RGD's thread.

http://trt.07th-expansion.net/

07E's new entry will be an anthology of three stories, with two writers joining in the fun: Tanaka Romeo and Tonokawa Yūto.

… so apparently we went from "Space Opera" to "Alice in Wonderland" (unless the space opera is somehow included in that)… the character's coloring is close from Higurashi's style rather than Umineko's, strangely. No more info for now. :o

And funny bit of news: Hinamizawa Bus Stop (Higurashi's "pilot") is gonna be adapted into the theater play it was supposed to be from the beginning.

… well that's reassuring. :x

edited 2nd Apr '15 10:13:55 AM by Lyendith

Had to look up the second guy. He's the one that did the two worst routes of Rewrite and the worst route of Little Busters.